Fixing lip sync issues on a Panasonic Plasma

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by captainsolo, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    So I picked up a beautiful ST60 Panasonic plasma a few months ago and have been breaking it in gently and finally getting to see the beauty of a higher end plasma panel.
    But what I have noticed is a lip sync audio issue where when watching a movie the sync seems to go off after about the half way point and it becomes really obvious for a scene or two then suddenly seems to go back in sync at some later point. Other time sit is off sync for the whole feature.

    I've been using my PS3 for BD playback through my Onkyo TX-nr626 receiver via HDMI. I was using HDMI input 1. I've never had to use any offset values as I'm usually running into an HDCRT for my display and using external speakers which has no audio sync issues whatsoever. I'm still using the same receiver and external speakers and if I switch back to the HDCRT there are no sync issues at all.

    So far this is killing my enthusiasm for an otherwise fantastic unit. I have every additional feature disabled including all motion smoothing and this isn't connected to any online functionality. I used the DNice recommended settings and am only using this for Blu-ray playback via HDMI.

    Using the ARC input makes no difference. I still see the sync go off and sometimes only for a single scene at a time. This is really infuriating.
    This is apparently an issue that many owners of this particular tv had and Panasonic did a fix in one of their older firmwares. However this TV seems to be fully updated. No matter what I do the sync goes off in certain instances and I don't think putting a setting in my receiver would help because it is only intermittent in certain scenes nor can I figure out exactly how much it goes off sync for.

    I'm wondering if an hdmi splitter might help so that I could go straight to the tv and then send the audio to the receiver.

    I've tried every variant of CEC and ARC and other players to try and get the sync right but nothing seems to work. The only thing that gets perfect sync is disabling 1080/24p or playing Standard def materials. I've even tried the av sync and lip sync in my onkyo receiver and tried to adjust audio delay. I even used the same film on two different players simultaneously to get the tv audio and receiver audio to sync but even that didn't work.

    Has anyone ever been able to get the sync right on 2013 Panasonic plasma models? This is driving me nuts!
     
  2. Not Insane

    Not Insane You talkin' to me?!

    Location:
    Kentucky
    I have an LG LED set. It has a sound synch adjstment feature. Occasionally we find we need to use it for some Netflix content.
     
  3. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    This model doesn't have any onboard sync adjustments. I have to fiddle around with the offset function in my receiver to try and adjust anything.
    I should also mention that the sync is better with headphones into the receiver but is still not perfect.

    I was starting to think it was just me until I achieved perfect sync by disabling 24p.
     
  4. Not Insane

    Not Insane You talkin' to me?!

    Location:
    Kentucky
    What is 24P?
     
  5. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    24p playback for Blu-rays so that it is displaying proper 24 frames per second playback. If you disable it, your player does a 3:2 pulldown to convert it back to 30fps standard rate like older tvs would have displayed. Thus I can view in 1080p but am not able to enjoy the benefit of seeing full original film speed of 24fps with the Panasonic's motion handling which is better than most modern tvs.
     
  6. The Wanderer

    The Wanderer Seeker of Truth

    Location:
    NYC
    The world has gotten complicated
     
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  7. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I got a new Sony Dolby Vision-equipped 4K UHD player and have had some lip-synch issues with it.

    No clue why - I literally plugged it into the same spots that my prior Sony 4K UHD player used!
     
  8. ggergm

    ggergm you can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd

    Location:
    Minnesota
    @captainsolo, here's the dirty little secret. There is nothing in the HDTV standard that syncs the audio with the video. Nothing. The question wasn't addressed when the HDTV standards were first being contemplated 20 years ago. Whether it was an oversight or stupidity, I don't know. My guess it was the former. Sync wasn't an issue with standard definition television. My bet is nobody thought it through.

    It wasn't helped by the fact that the federal government decided to not get involved with creating the HDTV standard. Deregulation was in the air so coming up with the standard was left to industry groups, lead mostly the manufacturers. With no Grand Poohbah saying, "we're doing it this way," the HDTV standard came about haphazardly. Often it was what was successful in the marketplace. That's fine but if you want everyone to watch out for a problem that doesn't exist yet, good luck.

    Sync can be a huge issue when you use a lot of video processing, which your set does when it's in the 24P mode. All that video processing takes time. We're talking many milliseconds of delay, which becomes noticeable. The problem is compounded by the fact that human beings are used to sound and vision being out of sync in real life but that's because the speed of sound is so slow compared to the speed of light. It's common to see something before you hear it. That's been brewed into our everyday experiences. But with video processing sync issues, that situation is reversed. You get the sound before you get the picture. That feels very wrong to us. It's not like real life. It's not in our DNA.

    I wish I had a good answer for your problem but I don't. You think sync is a problem now? You should have been around for the early days of HDTV. Sync issues were rampant. The content providers including TV stations, cable companies and the satellite TV providers like DirecTV, got their collective acts together and sync became less of an issue, but the problem was never fixed. It was just made to go away in most common situations. Sync issues still pop up today, as in your case.
     
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  9. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    Receivers usually have an audio delay setting to take care of this.

    The issue stems from all the post-processing the TV does for each frame which introduces an ever so slight delay which only becomes noticeable after a certain amount of frames have been processed as each delay becomes accrued.

    Assuming you're not interested in buying another receiver (in the event yours doesn't sports the aforementioned feature), you can look into the Video settings of your TV and disable some options. The more of these settings are disabled, the smaller the post-processing delay will be for each frame and you may or may not notice a delay at all in the end.
     
  10. slowhand1964

    slowhand1964 A Tadpole in a Jar

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Right there....Very well explained, and as someone who is afflicted by sync issues, there currently is very little work around
     
  11. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    That all makes sense and fits with what I’ve encountered through the years.
    I’ve tried fiddling with it again and going back and forth in my receiver settings 10ms at a time. It starts to get better around 60ms delay, very good at around 150 and seems perfect at 200ms delay. Thankfully it seems I can leave this and it won’t affect extras and the like.

    I just wish there was a way to get this nailed down and be exactly on point. I had heard of sync problems being frustrating before by until now it hasn’t hit me fully that it’s still all over the place in quality control.

    Perhaps I was spoiled with my hdcrt...
     
  12. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I have a ST55 from 2013, no lip sync probs.
     
  13. It is amazing that the HDMI standard is like this but it is. Many devices have sync issues. ggergm had an excellent overview.

    I use a Yamaha Aventage AVR with a sync function to take care of this as best as it can. It works most of the time, but is not perfect. I use a Panasonic Blu-Ray player, cable box, and a Sharp TV to sync the whole thing. The Sharp LCD TV does not have a very good video processor, should have gotten a Panasonic instead.
     
  14. Raylinds

    Raylinds Martinis, music and glowing tubes

    If you are outputting sound to a receiver with two rca cables, there is a device that allows you to dial in a delay: Robot Check
    Unfortunately it is not cheap ($84) and inly allows adjustments of 50Ms at a time.
    For those willing to spend $350 Hall Research has the AND-340 that has spdif digital input and output as well as analog outs and supports 5.1 surround.
    I'm surprised no one has made a delay with HDMI ins and outs. Maybe it's not possible with the HDMI standards.
     
  15. ggergm

    ggergm you can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd

    Location:
    Minnesota
    Boy, 50ms is a pretty big jump between steps.

    I have an add-on delay in my home theater system that normally I use for other purposes but it can be used for lip sync issues. Sync problems are almost always much less than 50ms and often need fine tuning of 3ms or less to completely nail. If I'm using my delay to solve a lip sync problem, it typically ends up somewhere around 10-20ms.

    That $84 delay might just make the problem worse. I can't remember the manufacturer of mine but 15 years ago it cost over $500. A good stand alone delay can be quite expensive.
     
  16. Raylinds

    Raylinds Martinis, music and glowing tubes

    I'm glad you were here to clarify that so nobody wastes their money on it.
     
    ggergm likes this.
  17. captainsolo

    captainsolo Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    It seems to vary from title to title. I still can’t get it nailed down.
     

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