Fleetwood Mac "Rumours"...2 target CD's, each with different mastering

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Scott J, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. Scott J

    Scott J Forum Hall of Fame Thread Starter

    If this exact topic has been discussed before, I apologize. I did a search, and the thread I wanted to post to, didn't allow me.

    I recently picked up the Japan 32XD-350 target CD of "Rumours". I was getting ready to sell my other "Rumours" Japan target, and did a comparison of the wave forms of each. I was a little surprised to see they each have a different mastering. The 32XD-350 target is noticeably louder, and seems to be a bit brighter. Maybe suffering from what Steve describes here...http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=68758&highlight=rumours (see post #9). I've included pics from Ralph's web site of each target.

    I've included a pic of the wave form comparison I did (track-01 of each disc). The top wave form is the non 32XD-350, and of course the bottom is the 32XD-350 disc. Was the 32XD disc made after the "Secret Remastering"?
     

    Attached Files:

    Dan Steele likes this.
  2. musicalbeds

    musicalbeds Strange but not a stranger

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Jolly good detective work Holmes!
     
  3. pcain

    pcain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    I have the West German Target (one of my very first CDs). I wonder how it compares to these Japanese Targets.
     
  4. KennyG

    KennyG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ireland
    It's going to sound different. The German plant's output was never upgraded to the secret remaster. It was pumping out the original mastering until the remaster came out a few years back.
     
  5. Scott J

    Scott J Forum Hall of Fame Thread Starter

    Since I don't have a W. German target of "Rumours" for comparison sakes, all I can do is speculate. However, my guess would be that the W. German and Japan 3010-2 targets are the same mastering, with the 32XD-350 being different from those two. So what does that say about the German pressing pcain was asking about?...I wish I knew. :sigh:
     
  6. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    I have all three, but I haven't listened to the 32XD disc in awhile. As I recall, the Japanese 3010-2 target has the fade up on "Gold Dust Woman". Does the 32XD disc have it, too?
     
  7. -Ben

    -Ben Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    Keith,

    Is the Japanese 3010-2 target the same as the West German target?
     
  8. Scott J

    Scott J Forum Hall of Fame Thread Starter

    According to EAC, the 3010-2 has "Gold Dust Woman" clock in at 5:00:53, and the 32XD "Gold Dust Woman" clocks in at 4:52:55. The entire 3010-2 disc clocks in at 39:46:15, while the 32XD disc clocks in at 39:39:40. Actually, I should have included this info in my first post. Sorry. :(

    Upon a good listen, the 32XD washes out the howling noises. While the 3010-2 really lets em' rip.

    I did another wave form comparison for "Gold Dust Woman". The 3010-2 is on top, the 32XD is on bottom.
     

    Attached Files:

    Dan Steele likes this.
  9. JoelDF

    JoelDF Senior Member

    Location:
    Prairieville, LA
    Sounds like (or, is that "looks like") the 32XD is the "secret remaster" version that all the later world-wide regular pressings used.

    That must be the only "target" version to use it. From everything we know of the target version in general, they stopped using that design before the mastering change-over so that there was a short pressing run of the plain text-on-silver design still using the original mastering.

    Is there any possible reference to the year that issue was made anywhere in the packaging - other than the original '77 release date of the album?
     
  10. jawilshere

    jawilshere Forum Resident

    Location:
    Massapequa, NY
    At the risk of sounding like an idiot ... the point is which version of Rumours is the one to get?
     
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  11. Evan

    Evan Senior Member

    Location:
    Petal, MS


    I have one of those old German non-target discs. "Gold Dust Woman" fades up and clocks in at 4:53. The entire disc disc clocks in at 39:40. Does the 3010-2 "Gold Dust Woman" fade up? The secret Remaster had the cold start "Gold Dust Woman".
     
  12. -Ben

    -Ben Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    I have the Japanese 3010-2, GDW fades up.

    I have also a MADE in USA (no barcode on the back) 3010-2. TT is 40:02, GDW has a cold start and clocks at 5:02. Matrix 1 3010-2 RE-2 SRC-01

    So right now we have three different ones since it does seem like the Japanese 32XD = German non-target. The question remains: Is the German Target the same as the Japanese 3010-2 or 32XD?

    Japanese 3010-2 TT= 40:02, GDW fades up 5:02
    Japanese 32XD TT= 39:40, GDW 4:53
    German non-target TT= 39:40 GDW fades up 4:53
    Made in USA RE-2 TT= 39:46 GDW starts cold 5:00
     
  13. Scott J

    Scott J Forum Hall of Fame Thread Starter

    In my post #8, the wave form I posted of "GDW" pretty much answers your question. The 32XD (bottom wave form), has a "colder start", albeit still technically a "fade up", with the howling at the end of the song washed out. Hope this helps Evan. :)

    Note: This post has been edited.
     
  14. -Ben

    -Ben Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    Cold start on 32XD? :yikes: We have four different ones then.


    Japanese 3010-2 TT= 40:02, GDW fades up 5:02
    Japanese 32XD TT= 39:40, GDW cold start 4:53
    German non-target TT= 39:40 GDW fades up 4:53
    Made in USA RE-2 TT= 39:46 GDW cold start 5:00
     
  15. Scott J

    Scott J Forum Hall of Fame Thread Starter

    Actually Ben, compared to the 3010-2, the 32XD seems like a "cold start" to me. However, I think most folks would say that technically there is a "fade up", albeit a few seconds shorter than the 3010-2. Sorry if I caused any confusion. :sigh:
     
  16. -Ben

    -Ben Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    OK then, I was going to say... that would be way too much of a coincidence to have both TT and GDW time the same, but one fades up and the other starts cold. :D

    My guess (until one of the West German Target owners gives us a hand) is that the Japanese 32DX, German Target and German non Target are all the same. Basically confirming what Kenny G said in post # 4. Still, we have three different versions, which would confirm the RE-2 designation for the USA version (It appears like the Japanese 3010-2 is RE-1).
     
  17. McLover

    McLover Senior Member

    Location:
    Athens, Tennessee
    Hi KeithH,

    My 3010-2 has the fade up on "Gold Dust Woman". It is an early copy made by Sanyo in Japan. It is a very early non-target with the target mastering. Sounds like my palm tree label LP mastered by Wally Traugott at Capitol.
     
  18. KeithH

    KeithH Success With Honor...then and now

    Location:
    Beaver Stadium
    As I recall, the West German and Japanese targets with 3010-2 are identical. My copies both have the fade up on "Gold Dust Woman". I also have a German non-target with the fade up and a West German non-target made for Columbia Record Club with the fade up. Going from memory, all four copies have the same mastering.

    Scott, very interesting find with the 32XD disc. I honestly have not listened to it closely.
     
  19. badfingerjoe

    badfingerjoe Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey
    My WG Target has the fade up as does my Japan Target. The WG disc time is 39:41 and the Japan clocks in at 39:46.

    JF
     
  20. -Ben

    -Ben Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington DC Area
    Thanks Joe.

    AFAIC, that does it. Call it fade up or cold start. Total Time is the key. The West German Target is the same as the Japanese 32DX and the West German non-target. UNLESS.. there are two West German Targets. :D

    Your Japanese Target actually seems to clock the same as the Made in USA. :confused:
    Which Target does it look like? See the picture in post #1.
     
  21. pcain

    pcain Forum Resident

    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    Info from my West German (matrix # 7599 03010-2 2893 013 04)

    "Gold Dust Woman" = Fade Up;
    time = 04:52.066 (as read by iTunes)
    time = 04:52.06667 (as read by Peak)

    Total disc time (this gets odd):
    According to my CD/SACD player, total time = 39:39
    According to my 5-CD changer, total time = 39:42
    According to iTunes, total time = 39:36

    Also,
    My Mac G5's built-in drive CANNOT read the Target disc!
    My old LaCie CD Burner CAN read it.
     
  22. ChristianL

    ChristianL Senior Member

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I recommend the recent WB remaster.

    The first mastering sounds too dull to me.
     
  23. Scott J

    Scott J Forum Hall of Fame Thread Starter

    It's actually not too odd for different players to be off a couple of seconds. It looks to me, like your time of "GDW" is the same as that of the 32XD Japan Target. It looks to be the same case with your over-all time on your W. German CD being the same as the 32XD Target.
     
  24. KennyG

    KennyG Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ireland
    Strangely, my Dell PC's DVD burner struggles to read Targets and early Polygram discs, particularly the early tracks. They play fine on everything else. Anyone else have that problem?
     
  25. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    Location:
    Ohio
    I have the exact same matrix numbered, WEST GERMANY SILVER/GREY TARGET as "pcain". The total disc time is 39:40 and "Gold Dust" fades in.

    Chris C
     

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