Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Apr 25, 2007.
Any love for the WB DVD-A and/or J-SACD?
I agree 100%. If for no other reason than it’s subjective as well. But of course we all have different equipment, and are wanting to hear things in our way. I should qualify my statements with that.
But, I do have a lot of 45rpms…Dire Straits etc. I really wish I could hear a difference but I just don’t, and the fact that it’s pretty controversial kinda tells me the difference just can’t be all that great to make it worth getting up every 2-3 songs and flipping it over. But that’s just my own opinion. And yup….couldn’t agree more and I said as much….do your own shootout! Especially with this album. Everything is identical except the speed. For me, that’s what put the issue to bed. But clearly you can tell on your system. I’n glad I have both. I did buy all the ABBA half speeds and know those albums very well. Ran into the same thing. I wanted to hear a difference, but at best they sounded as good as my best 33 pressings, but with the exception of one the 45’s were not as good as my best 33’s. So, for me it’s really hard to justify the extra expense and inconvenience personally.
You're absolutely right @Jrr. Amazon has this irritating policy of not using the record's code number but rather their own ASIN. I myself bought a copy of Rumours just last week because the description (amazon's description, that is, not a reviewer's, mind you) specifically quoted "remastered by Steve Hoffman". Well, of course it wasn't, so back it went. But in that case, I feel entirely justified in sending it back because theirs was a false representation of the product.
Oh well, the search continues
Oh, and I try and avoid ordering from the US because atm the authorities in Italy are really going at it with fees and duties. I always assumed it was a somewhat random thing, so it might happen, it might not, but lately they've been intercepting every single order from outside the EU - so it isn't just the US but the UK too
Sorry that happened!
Where was this stated as fact?
For the record, I had both at one time and I did hear a difference in favor of the 45rpm. If I had to quantify it to make it easy to understand, I'd say it was about 10% more open and natural. Now, I sold it because I didn't feel that was enough to justify interrupting the flow and getting up twice as much but whether others feel the same way is up to them to decide.
Naturally, I wouldn't suggest to someone that they need to put a bunch of disclaimers when merely their opinion is stated.
Did you buy from Amazon themselves or another dealer on Amazon? In a lot of cases, the default selected dealer is the cheapest which can be cheaper than Amazon's own price.
I have read from some that the bass is marginally better on the 45, but that wouldn’t compel me to disrupt the flow of the album. I always respect your opinion so on the right system it sounds like you could squeeze out a bit more as clearly you got a bit more out of your’s. Since I know you heard it, I sure wish I could! But I would run into the same issue you did. There are a few albums where I just don’t want the original track order disrupted for a minor SQ difference. On the One Steps, I tolerate it because the difference isn’t subtle and it’s worth the hassle. I just haven’t run into that on any of my pretty numerous 45 editions (mainly MFSL, and typically because they didn’t offer a 33). I sure would love to do a shootout with a One Step 33 vs 45! Doubt they will ever do that though. I do think even in that case, the difference would be marginal. As you said, everyone has a threshold for what they will tolerate for the absolute best sound.
I bet this issue is incredibly frustrating, especially when people are looking for your specific master. I think it’s incredibly dumb they struck two different masters at nearly the same time if memory serves. I believe I also initially bought the wrong one.
I'll try to find the thread but a lot of your info is wrong "today", meaning they have been doing so many pressings in different places, pressing plants and countries.
Fleetwood Mac Rumours reissue noisy?!
It's getting very hard to get the correct copies as they can also have the gold pallas sticker, but yet made in the EU or Germany. However even a few I bought have the pallas sticker, say made in the USA bottom back, but then have a German issued label saying made in Germany, but the SH matrix.
Put it this way, it's like they are throwing a lot of parts together to keep putting this album out. Where ever they can get printing, pressing and stampers they are just using what ever they have.
As it stands today you don't want the made in EU or Germany printed on the bottom of the back cover. You still want the gold pressed at pallas sticker, but any of these issues can have that on them. They have really made a mess of this issue, just like the old days where the label just pushed records out, where they where made and what mastering didn't matter to them.
It's not that hard right. You have a Pallas factory in Germany and in US.
Yes there is both, what you want is Pallas USA though.
Right know it's a roll of the dice as to what's inside a sealed copy.
I have a few of these they sound great, but check them out they are not like the original 2011. These are the ones out now that are pretty common in the stores. Discogs doesn't have a date because it's like a bastard, a mix of Europe and US with a German label, and a gold Pallas Sticker. You'll see lots of sealed copies and most sellers 47, are in the states, that shows you it's current, abundant as a US copy right now.
Fleetwood Mac – Rumours (Vinyl)
Also go here for more info
Absolutely no problem, I just had to try. For a couple of days I was fidgeting, thinking I'd hit the jackpot and looking forward to posting the ASIN here for all the members of your esteemed forum to go and empty the amazon lockers, but alas it was not to be.
I rarely buy from dealers on amazon. This is still in the description on amazon Italy for ASIN B004OKFISQ
Fantastic recent high quality remaster of the 1977 classic featuring 'Go Your Own Way'...you need this. Mastered from the Original Analog Master Tapes by Steve Hoffman
I wrote explaining that the version they are shipping isn't the one in the description but I doubt anyone will notice and amend it. Admittedly, it was too good to be true.
I'm sure it's me being naïve but I just don't get it: you ask one of the best on the planet master those tapes, and I guess you could them flog them to everyone for the next... I don't know, forever? And yet, a couple of years later someone wakes up one fine morning and decides that "oh well, we do have the best version possible of this but what the heck, let's do it differently this time!"
I imagine it costs money because you have to have someone else go over the tapes/files as if from scratch, but hey, two years later someone else decides to give it yet another go... Such fun!
How many mastering has that album had over the last few years, it's bonkers!
@4-2-7, this must be the answer.
Yeah I'm afraid it is right now, or at least the last couple of years. Trying to buy this online right now is a crap shoot as places just use the catalog number. Even at the record store they get a mix of different copies when they order. If you're able to at least see and read everything on the cover at a store you have a better shot at getting the desired matrix.
This would be the first I’ve heard where the gold sticker would have the non-Hoffman album. I hope it’s not true but it certainly could be. I hope I don’t cause anyone to get the wrong copy, but many have posted back here that indeed it was correct. I’ve seen recent copies out in the wild that appear correct if that exact label is affixed. A friend of mine got a 33 version, quite recent, and it was correct. I guess the best advice is be very careful…or wait until one comes up here in the classifieds. One just sold…they do come up frequently. It’s a forum favorite.
Wonder how long it will be until someone says they got a copy with Steve’s on one side and a different on side two! That kind of thing happened a lot in the old days of vinyl, as many of us know. What a mess.
That's for sure, BTW I have been talking about the 33.3 issue. That thread I linked you to shows a gold pressed at pallas sticker on the cover, and a made in Germany fine print in the back, and a US label. The new one I got have the gold sticker, made in the USA, with a Made in Germany label LOL
The original 45 rpm pressing went OOP around 2017-2018?, I got one of the reissues of it and it's not the same and made in the EU
The 45 that Steve and Kevin is effin mind blowing. As good as the 33 sounds, the 45 just effortlessly sounds amazing. Super smooth with authoritative bass!
Just because you don't hear much of a difference (if any) between the 33 and the 45 doesn't make it not so in general.
For one, others have heard a difference with your. Secondly, rock and roll records tend not to demand the most in terms of audio reproduction in all aspects. Some of the things like soundstage, micro- and macro-dynamics, and inner detail are generally not as great a part of a rock recording as classical or jazz.
Third, the fidelity near the label is known to not be as good as at the outside of the record. This is why quiet or simpler songs tend to be placed there.
So this album just may not test the capability of cutting at 45rpm as some other albums.
That’s the most consistent comment I hear regarding the biggest difference in sound between 45 and 33, no doubt it’s true. I have two rel subs. I must confess I have never spent much time on really dialing that in. I let them set themselves up more or less, as they have that feature. They just fill in the holes my Thiel 3.6’s have in the lower range. I am a lot more in tune to mids and highs, and I think that is where there is perhaps less difference between the two. Sorry to hear it’s been reissued using the inferior mastering.
Inferior? It’s the same master right?
Makes sense to me. I think I’ve always said “I don’t hear a difference”, not that there isn’t one. The only other point is I think you just have to decide where your thresh hold is to flipping. There are quite a few who agree the difference, if any, is subtle and others that hear a meaningful difference. The fact that we’re even debating it kinda tells me maybe the difference isn’t all that earth shattering. If I could tell a difference to the extent some others have, I would trade that for flipping it over every 8 minutes. And for the One Steps, I’m in.
You’re right about genre….I listen to pretty main stream titles in the pop rock genre, and I agree those records are not as demanding. My promo 33 ABBA albums definitely sound better than the Abbey Road 45rpm Half Speeds, but it’s hard to say if the blame is that the tapes are simply older, or if the Half Speed actually hurt it. The whole Abbey Road thing has been very hit and miss imo, so maybe that’s not the place to test the 45 issue. The Bob Marley titles have been outstanding, but many others have not been.
No, I’m reading they are using a different master, I think from the UK, not Steve’s. And using a similar looking gold label. Yikes.
There are two SH and KG US releases, the 45 and a 33. That's what this above was about. How inferior the 45 is to the 33 with the same master.
Besides that there is also a 2011 European release which need to be avoid.
Separate names with a comma.