Focal vs B&W vs Sonus Faber Speakers with McIntosh Amps

FWIW I moved from Focal 1028BEs to Wilson Audio Sabrinas. Without a well treated room the Focal’s slightly hotter top end can get fatiguing and near impossible to control. All the Focal punch and speed can be impressive but also unforgiving because fullness and warmth are the trade off.

The Sabrina is only 1-2k more expensive than the Olympia III if you are up in that price range.

 

I used to work around big chunks of beryllium on a daily basis. It's no more harmful than the dozens of other carcinogens in your home that must be inhaled/ingested to be a hazard. It's not like the stuff is outgassing all the time.

 

Ok, but it reminds me a bit of the Asbestos problem here in Europe ( well Belgium and Italy mostly), used up until years ago in lots of houses as building material with lots of people now dying, years later, because of this carcinogenic product (through inhalation) that was thought to be 'safe'. As it turned out it was especially very cheap for those manufacturing it.
With Asbestos it is dangerous when the product gets scratched or damaged and you can inhale the small bits that come off and get airborne....probably the same with Beryllium ?

 

Unless one goes grinding and scraping the tweeters, I don't understand how it's anything like asbestos. I'm pretty certain they recommend putting on grills so children don't touch them. Just like lead, if you touch beryllium then you should wash your hands before eating. One's health probably suffers far greater harm from being exposed to the lead pollution remaining in our atmosphere and oceans.

 

The economics of Beryllium appear to be more costly than asbestos: the USD price per kg of Beryllium = $7,480, the price for asbestos rock is $19.56 per kilogram.

But thanks, now I need to worry about staring in the dark @ the luminous dial on my radium Rollex whilst listening to Iron Butterfly from my 1038bes & inhaling:



The study found that 30 radium dial watches, when kept in a poorly ventilated space the size of "a typical boxroom" (UK-speak for a small bedroom or storage room) produced radon levels a whopping 134 times the recommended maximum safe level. In addition the study says, " ... three of the watches in poor condition gave rise individually to radon concentrations – when kept in the same poorly ventilated room – well in excess of the threshold where Public Health England would recommend remediation." Occasionally folks have pointed out on various watch forums that radium's decay products (such as radon) pose a potential hazard, but this is the first study I'm aware of that shows that radon from radium dials can accumulate to such previously unsuspected high levels.

Recommended Reading: New Report Shows Radium Dials Might Pose Serious Danger - HODINKEE

 

The Reference line from KEF might also suite your needs for detail similar to speakers manufactured by Focal.

 

Firstly, let's clear up the volume issue. How loud a pair of speakers will play depends on (a) its efficiency, and (b) how much power it can absorb. If you have two speakers with the same efficiency, e.g., 90 dB SPL at 1 m for 2.83 V input, then the one that can operate with the higher wattage has the potential to go louder. So, you need to look first at the efficiency, and then the maximum power (W) rating, as well as the dBW rating of the amplifier.

Your amp. can produce about 27 dBW, and assume you had a nice easy speaker that is 100 dB for 2.83 V efficient, and can suck up 450 W (the max. specified output of your amp). In this case, the speaker should be able to reach 127 dB SPL as you approach the limits of both the speaker and amp. Now, assume the speaker can only suck up 100 W (20 dBW). Once you reach 120 dB SPL, the speaker will become the limiting factor, not your amp. Conversely, if the speaker could handle 1,000 W (30 dBW), you would reach the limits of your amp. first.

So, when you compare, look at the efficiency and maximum power handling. You can essentially ignore the nominal impedance because the Mac uses autoformers to impedance match, but you do need to know whether the manufacturer is specifying efficiency for 2.83 V, and with what nominal impedance -- some manufacturers of 4 ohm speakers 'cheat' because a 2.83 V signal in a 4 ohm speaker corresponds to 2 W, not 1 W, hence you often have to subtract 3 dB when comparing to 8 ohm nominal impedance speakers.

As to your choices, here is another perspective, given that it seems you have difficulty doing auditions. There are many happy forum members using B&W 800-series speakers with McIntosh amplification. Of the models you list, and of the added suggestions from other members, the 802 is the only speaker that you will find in recording and mastering studios. They are a great tool -- I know, I've been using them for years, but I have Classe monoblocks driving mine. They do a great many things exceedingly well, and, thanks to the size of B&W, are a bargain compared to many audiophile speakers. Here is a review where the even bigger 1.2KW McIntosh amps were used:

B&W 802 Diamond Loudspeaker – Reviews | TONEAudio MAGAZINE

If someone had to buy blind (and already had your amp), I think that they could do a lot worse than one of the 802D models.

 

I find the B&W 801 series annoyingly bright. I haven’t heard the 802, so I hope it is an improvement.

 

My dad has the 802D2 with McIntosh amplification (MC402) and they sound fantastic. Bright is not a descriptor I would use for that combination.

 

If you do not like the 801N or 801D, then you will not like the 802 version, as the voicing is nearly identical, but the 15" woofer is replaced by two smaller woofers.

I have no idea under what circumstances (room/partnering equipment) you heard the 801, but 'annoyingly bright' does NOT come to my mind.

 

Will he adopt me?

 

B&W Matrix 801 series 2, placed rather close together on either side of a stereo rack, 12’x18’ room filled with furniture, 8 foot ceiling, wall open on one end, 1980’s-era McIntosh receiver (I believe it was a solid state MAC4300V), 1990’s-era Sony CDp-X779ES CD player. By “annoyingly bright,” I do not mean to say that the speakers were bass shy. In a speaker of that size and configuration, you would have to work hard to make it bass shy. However, the bass frequencies although prodigious were a little loose and the lower midrange a little muddy. The upper midrange and treble, however, had a hard glare which I can only describe as “annoyingly bright.” Granted, this was 1990’s-era equipment and the last I heard it was 10 years ago, but it did not leave me with a good impression.

 

Thank you all so much for giving me your input. I'll be in Dallas this week for business and there is a shop there that has the Sopra 2's on display. I'm going to try and go by there and hear these speakers in person. This same shop doesn't have the other brands I'm looking for but here in Austin there are two places I found that I can hear B&W and Sonus Faber.
I'll report back after visiting these places over the next week or two

 

The Matrix series was a completely different speaker. The OP is considering buying one of the recent Diamond series speakers.

Having said that, I used to have 801 Matrix S3 and 801N at my disposal. Both are very difficult to drive properly, and high-quality, high-powered solid-state amplification is the order of the day (I used Pass X-series monoblocks). While the Matrix was a very capable speaker, and heavily used in classical music recording/monitoring, it lacked the agility of the N and D series that followed (which made the N/D versions much more all-rounders), but it was not a bright speaker either. Something else in the chain must have been causing that.

 

Based on your description, I have the perfect speakers for you that would save you some money as well. Look at the Dynaudio Focus 380s that are on usaudiomart.com right now. They retailed for $9500 new! They are detailed, have amazing bass, and have a great soundstage. Contact me on there. I'd really like to tell you more about them!

 

I owned a Primaluna Integrated HP amp and demoed the Focal 1038BE and Sonus Faber Olympica 3 side by side with the same amp. I play everything except for hard rock, but mostly jazz, folk, acoustic, and rock/pop, and some classical. I listed to each on various tracks, ranging from 90s alternative, to jazz, to Van Morrison to Billy Joel, to Tony Bennett, to Ella Fitzgerald, to the Smiths, etc. Overall, for all tastes it was a clear winner for my tastes - the Sonus Faber Olympica 3. For the long term, it sounded more like music. Were the Focal 1038 more detailed? Yes, certainly, but at the expense of a more fatiguing sound (and this was with EL34 tube amp which even rounds the sound and top end off a bit). The 1038 has a leaner midrange, which lacks the body and texture/tonality I was looking for, had a brighter top end, and overall sounded metallic to me in a way. In contrast, the Olympica 3 was rich, still maintained an enveloping sound that draws you in no matter the genre. Very non fatiguing sound.

I would say the Focal Sopra 2 is the balance of the 2 in a way, for still leanings more to the Focal house sound. It is certainly more refined, so the metallic sound is gone, and has a richer midrange thanks to the larger drive, I believe, and very nice detail, which you're looking for. I didn't hear it with the say system though. It still is a bit dry of a sound, compared to the Olympica 3. Those who love the focal sound typically say the Olympica 3 sounds boring to them. Those that love the Olympica 3 typically say the Focal sounds to lean or bright, but the Focal Sopra 2 is at least a nice balance overall.

Another option is the Kanta 2, or the Kanta 3, but based on your room size, the Kanta 2 would be the way to go. I'd pick the Kanta 2 over the 1038 everyday of the week - the top end is much smoother and less grainy/bright compared to the 1038. I have a great Focal dealer who I've bought all my gear from if you want to pick his brain - wouldn't hurt and he is relatively close to you and he may have some demo pairs for sale (not sure, but I'd have to ask). Feel free to PM me if you need anything else! Good luck with the search.

 

I know that it is overkill, power wise (and I never, ever crank it too loudly, as there is no reason to), but I have my B&W 805D's hooked up to my McIntosh MC452. After 8 or so years though, I'm ready to sell both, along with my McIntosh preamp (C2300). I'm soon to be auditioning Audio Note AN-E's and some of the lower to mid Vandersteen line and BOTH of those companies seem to sadly be a bad match with McIntosh amplification. GOD knows that I love those big blue meters and the smoothness of those McIntosh amps, but they have to go!

 

A very close friend of mine has the Olympica IIIs and I have listened to them for a number of years now and know them really well. They have a beautiful sound particularly if you like acoustic based music, jazz ensembles, and classical. They do have what is referred to as a Sonus Faber "house sound". This sound that they tune into their speakers is not so blatant that the music does not sound real and authentic just that it warms the sound up a bit and in my opinion favors acoustic based music. You will be really impressed with the sound of an upright bass when played or violins. Over time he began to want something a bit more neutral along with more detail and played amplified music with more punch and less color. Drums sound really good with the Olympica IIIs but something like the Focal may sound even better. He would come over my house and listen to my KEF Reference 3s and felt that certain positive aspects of this speaker was missing from his. Likewise I would go to his house and feel certain positive aspects of his speaker was missing from mine. His upright bass sounds more pleasing and textured to my ears, and drums sound more authentic on mine. Proof there is no perfect speaker. Certain speakers may be more neutral than others and I believe the Olympica IIIs do have a house sound. Extended listening made this show through more than a quick initial listen. I am not saying this house sound is bad just that their house sound made some other speakers sound more detailed and less colored. He ended up switching to a pair of Tidal Piano speakers and is very satisfied with this switch. From your description of what you listen to I think any of the three would satisfy you. Depending on where the majority of your listening time is spent. Determining if it is either acoustic based music or electric might be how you decide in which direction you go. Most important though, with this type of monetary investment an overnight trip to audition these speakers would be money well spent as opposed to buying a pair without hearing them first. When I was speaker searching my short list became the Harbeth Super HL5 plus, Focal 1038BE and the KEF Reference 3s. If it were not for repeated auditions between these speakers there would have been a great chance I may have picked a speaker I would not have been 100 percent happy with. I went as far a dragging my amplifiers along for the last of the audions to verify that they would match well with the speakers I was about to purchase. With all this said, if at all possible you owe it to yourself to visit and audition no matter if it takes a long car ride, an overnight stay and maybe even bring your amplifier along for company.

 

So long story short I went to Dallas, heard the Sopra 2’s and fell in love. My speakers should arrive next week sometime and I’ll allow for some break in time before reporting back again.

Thank you all for your help, I cannot wait to get these puppies hooked up!

 

Congrats on your purchase! Did you end up buying new or did you find a used pair?

 

Nice. I've heard them and they sounded great.

 

Congrats!!
Hope to see pics in your follow-up.

 

Very nice, and what finish did you choose?

 

Yes please report back ... it may take a few days for the speakers to break in if they're new.

I don't have a lot of experience but had a McIntosh C220 tube hybrid pre with Triangle Titus speakers (with tweeter crossover upgrade). Loved the organic sound but it was too smooth ... got some 'crisper' driver tubes (Siemens NOS) for my 300B amps and it sounded 'just right'.

 

I recently purchased Sopra 2's also. I'm still breaking them in but they sound really good, the bass has really tightened up. Anyone who says these are harsh either has heating issues or their room is way out of wack. Smooth as silk to my ears. Oh, and the beryllium tweeter doesn't scare me, I don't plan on smelling or licking it