For those who know, what's wrong with belt-drive turntables?

I don't know where the thread is with the criticism of belt-drive turntables, , but what are the problems with them?

I would just like to hear from those who claim there is a problem.

 

...in my vinyl days a direct drive TT was considered better...belt drive...well, has a belt, a rubber belt that can wear out, slip, stretch, etc...how does that sound? I guess it's just a matter of preference..I'm sure there are those that champion belt drive TT's...

 

So you can get all the truth? A search under "Rega Speed" will turn up several threads dealing with the issue. There is nothing inherently wrong with a belt drive turntable.

 

Grant,
I don't believe that there is any perception of problems with belt drive turntables. What I've seen on this forum appears to me to be nothing more than people trying to justify their existing direct drive turntable. As Vinyl Anachronist has pointed out in another thread, when you do listening comparisons between (say) the Technics diect drive turntables and the Projects, Regas, VPIs Linns, etc, the decision inevitably comes down to the belt drive turntable.

 

On the other hand, you'll find a lot of cheap belt-drive turntables which actually sound worse than many low-end direct-drive turntables. Why? Because such cheap belt-drive TTs use cheap, crappy motors and poorly designed plinths to begin with. Thus, a cheap belt-drive Technics turntable is usually inferior to that of a direct-drive Technics turntable which sells for slightly more money. Worse, those cheap new belt-drive TTs suffer more often than not from severe flutter, again due to their crappy motors. However, a belt-drive turntable's quality improves much more substantially for a given increase in the cost of its innards than a direct-drive turntable's quality would -- because having the spindle shaft and/or the platter coupled directly with the motor would result in noise and vibration which would potentially degrade the overall sound quality.

That said, a direct-drive TT can be made to sound as good as the better belt-drive TTs do - but at a relatively astronomical price. (That is, a direct-drive turntable which performs on a par with a $1500 belt-drive TT tends to cost more than $10,000.)

Sure, when I picked my belt-drive MMF5, I could have bought a Technics SL1200-series direct-drive TT. But brand-new, I don't justify spending $600 on a direct-drive TT which sounds just as mediocre as a belt-drive TT which costs half as much.

 

I would prefer a belt drive table to direct drive all day long.

 

I'd love to try a belt-drive table someday, but it seems hard to find a decent/affordable one with pitch control.

 

If you have a good table, you don't need pitch control. As long as you verify the speed is correct with a strobe disc and check it every now and then, you are fine. If there are speed problems that are significant, you will hear them.

 

I may be spoiled, but I feel I need to fix the speed on the fly on records that were issued at goofy speeds, like Across The Universe by The Beatles or With A Little Help From My Friends by The Beach Boys. I'd feel impotent if I couldn't.

 

There's nothing inherently wrong with belt-drive turntables. It is just that the build quality on the more affordable models isn't always up to par. My research has indicated that there are several particular models that I personally would steer clear of. But that's just me. Others may use them and be very happy. Also, most belt-drives lack pitch controls. That can be a problem if you're particularly sensitive to pitch, er, obviously. I have three cuttings of A Hard Day's Night and all three run at a different speeds. That would drive some forum members here insane if they couldn't adjust it.

If I had $2000 to spend right now I'd go out and buy either a Sota or a VPI. Both are belt-drives.

On the other hand, the cutting lathe Kevin Gray uses is driven by a direct-drive Technics motor.

 

I understand.

 

The reason that DD tables from audiophile companies are either non-existent or overpriced is because it's much more expensive to develop a direct drive system than it is to attach a belt to a pulley.

Denon and Technics both make excellent DD tables.

 

Folks, it ain't just a Belt vs DD thing. There's some of us who just luuuuve our ballsy vintage rim-drives and wouldn't give tuppence for a mimsy-pimsy belter

Brian.

 

Belt-driven turntables isolate against vibration better than direct drive, as direct drive turntables are noisier and vibrate more to boot.

The problem is that if the motor/belt is no good, speed can be an issue. For me, who has a POS Goldring GR1 table, I am already noticing this after 8 months - but it was a cheap table. If you get a high end Linn or VPI table, this isn't the case. I even have a Micro Seiki from 20 years ago that spins perfectly (hell, the Samsung arm died before the belt did! hah )

 

Well, when my belt breaks I have to spin the platter with my hand. That can be a bummer.

 

WOW !!!

 

Thanks for the input, guys! See, one of these days, I will get a new TT, and I want to stretch my dollars as far as I can.

From what I am getting from the responses so far is that there are speed issues with the lower-priced tables, no? Proper pitch is very important to me, and I don't really need a pitch control, although I have gotten used to having one.

Since, even these days, I do not spin records daily, and sometimes go for weeks without using the TT, is it possible for a belt to become stretched or deformed for long periods of non-use? And, do you have to change belt settings for 45s and LPs? I switch between the two often, and changing belt positions for speeds is inconvenient.

 

Strange though it may be, it's the mid-priced turntables which require a manual change of the belt setting. Those mid-priced models typically use AC synchronous motors that spin at full speed all the time. (Some mid-priced TTs make the belt-changing a bit easier by providing a mechanical switch that's connected to a mechanically-controlled lever near the belt.) Most have the belt located in such a way that you'll have to physically remove the platter to get at the belt and pulley. Some more expensive TTs with a manual belt-change mechanism make the job easier by locating the belt/pulley assembly outside of the platter, on the plinth itself; that way, you don't have to remove the platter to change the belt position.

The cheap models (and some expensive models) have DC motors that are electronically controlled; on those tables, a flick of a switch or a push of a button changes the speed.

 

Grant, Modern belts do not suffer from non-use, however, VPI says that for critical listening you should let the TT warm up for 30 minutes with the platter spinning. If you do not have a speed controller then you have to change the belt from one pulley to another. If you cannot afford a speed controller (which can always be added at a later date) I strongly suggest you get a TT with an outboard motor, that is easily seen along with the belt. Changing it from one pulley to the other takes all of a second. Basically when it comes to TT's you get what you pay for if your buying new. I would say that if you cannot spend at least $300 on a new TT consider a used Thorens.

 

I will always use a belt drive table. I can hear the motor noise with a direct drive system. I want the motor as far away from the platter as possible. I can't wait until I save up enough money for a VPI Scoutmaster. The motor is not even part of the plinth, it is in a separate enclosure that does not even touch the main plinth.

 

Tim de Paravicini's soon to be released TT is quite ingenious, though to no ones surprise... it uses a cogged belt to drive a magnetic saucer - this allows for absolutley presice RPM adjustment since there is no slippeage or other minute differences due to the cogged nature of the belt. The magnetic saucer in turn spins the platter via a special non standard bearing design. The sonics of the unit were astounding at CES - dynamics you wouldnt normally think of and a black, silent background that was quite amazing...

the best part is that it will be priced reasonably for such an all out SOTA design - 10k...

cant wait!

 

I was using a vintage Technics SL-5200 Direct Drive tuntable untill one day it started spinning out of control! It would work for awhile if I unplugged it and reset it. But that didn't work for long either. I posted on this board about my problem and nobody knew how to fix it. Luckily for me Tony Plachy offered me his old Thorens belt drive turntable for practically nothing and I've never looked back. I've had no problems with the speed and this thing is at least 30 years old. I'm thrilled with this table. Thanks Tony

 

Danny, Do you have a link for this where we can see it?

 

Glad it found a good home.

 

This does not apply to Direct Drive in general though.

The above taken from Kabusa.com

I don't think any drive system itself is the problem, but if a deck cannot do the basics, like rotate at a constant correct speed, then it's not for me.