For Yes Fans - what happened?

Bruford was put off by the fact that so much of a corporate effort was behind Union, which was true. Also he's nice enough to let his bandmates off the hook. Union basically happened because neither of Yes' two factions was in great shape at the time, meanwhile the reuuion wheels were rolling. The sensible thing to do would have been to abandon it altogether.

No doubt that what happened afterwards (Bruford, Howe and Wakeman getting sacked because their next label head wanted the 90125 lineup) soured Bruford for good. But the blame for this sort of thing ultimately goes to a couple members of Yes.

 

I like about half of Union

I Would Have Waited
Shock to the System
Masquerade
Lift Me Up
Miracle of Life
The More We Live
Take the Water

the rest is utter tripe, but there a few decent Howe riffs present in a few of the songs that just need tunes. It could have been decent if it was true Yes, sadly it's impossible to know what is played by a Yes member or a session guy. Sad.

 

The whole story is here, at least as far as guitars go. We cam assume that Wakeman is barely on the album either, for Bruford it's uncertain.

Jimmy Haun interview

 

Drama and 90125 may not quite stack up to the early to mid 70s but they come damn close.
I think the changes made by Yes and Genesis in the early 80s were actually brilliant.....sort of akin to Lennon's POB coming after The Beatles. Taking a minimalist approach, a deliberate change of direction. (The comparison is not 100% because Lennon was never a virtuoso.....but there's an element of what he did in what they did.......even though they were aiming it to a large audience with the technique/production and he wasn't).

Post 83 it got to be a bit schlocky......

 

But he did a great job, even live, we were pleased.

 

Not for me. I like, rather than love it. Incidentally, when I saw Yes on the Drama tour, it was the evening after John Lennon had been shot. They stopped the show for a little while and then sang Man In A White Car acapella. It was a touching moment. The thing about Drama is, Buggles we’re recording in the studio next door to what was then the remnants of Yes. They had written We Can Fly From Here with them in mind and offered it to them, with out expecting to be drafted into the band. But the rest is history. A funny thing it wasn’t used, particularly as Drama is only around the 30 minute mark.

 

It really is. No, it's not prog, and doesn't sound like 70's yes, but who cares? Good music is good music regardless of style, and 90125 is a great record.

 

I consider it finer than every Yes album before it, as well.

 

Probably not the best way to approach the album. Besides, there no possible reality where Bruford would have been on Relayer. He was already mentally checked out before Close To The Edge was even completed. For me, Bruford peaked with Yes on Fragile. Aside from scattered moments on the CTTE title track, he barely registers on the album. No, it was best for him to go and mark new territory with King Crimson. The Relayer material was not for him.

 

Correct! Relayer needed a rock drummer and not a jazz drumner

 

I've thought this for as long as I can remember but; Alan White is a completely anonymous, underwhelming drummer. Surely no one can follow Bruford - but White doesn't even seem to try. He doesn't show the flash that progressive rock needs.

 

Sadly, he was rubbish on the Jon Anderson songs.

It was painful to watch.

 

90125 A+
Big Generator A
Union B-
Talk A
Keystudio B+
Open You Eyes C
The Ladder A
Magnification A
/------------------------------> the classic lineup (w/ White) goes total Yes nostalgia, including the unimportant 35th anniversary selling point. Oy vey!

Then, Asia reunites (2006-2012) making three strong albums (Phoenix, Omega, XXX). Nostalgia, done correctly.

During the Asia reunion came....Yes' "Fly From Here" A-
And with Asia's XXX the following year, Steve Howe was officially on a roll, making 4 strong albums with two bands. Things were going swell.

But then, Steve Howe retired from Asia...and I ended up with, "Heaven & Earth" which is hell to listen to.

I wish Howe had stayed with Asia for one more album.
I think he could have helped make Gravitas (2014) a more interesting listen (no offense Sam Coulson)...instead I got a half baked Yes album.

 

Everyone is rubbish on the Jon Anderson songs, except Jon, who I will be seeing next month. But given the situation, he did fine. The entire Drama album was worth hearing and they played five songs from it that night.

 

Not really.

And he admits that.

And then there was Jon Anderson’s Song of Seven tour.

 

I only like the debut album. A cracker.

 

Then I’d say you’re letting some amazing drumming go right over your head. Alan would have probably even gotten more flack had he come in and tried to be a Bruford clone. No one can or should do that. He did what a proper individual artist did and played the required parts but in his own style and with his own unique flash/flair. He was also the right drummer for where the band (Chris in particular) were heading. Relayer has some of the most pummeling and aggressive drumming in all of prog. Yeah, it’s different than Bruford but is also exactly what was called for. One way in that you’re right is that Alan (coming from Lennon etc) came up in the “serve the song” ethos and carried that over to Yes and wasn’t such a “frontline” drummer as Bruford. But that said, the is some deceptively tricky stuff he does with Yes. Don’t write it all off as lazy rock drumming. Most of it is anything but.

 

I always liked ABWH and thought it might presage a revival. So did Bruford as per his autobiography.

 

The real hip dudes only like the demo tape.

 

With respect, to pigeonhole Bill Bruford as a jazz drummer is one of the silliest things I've ever read on this forum. Bruford-era Crimson was heavier than anything Yes ever did in their entire career. And everything AW plays on Yessongs sounds dumbed down compared to what Bruford played - it doesn't swing, it's not smart playing. If Relayer had been played by Bill, it would likely have been a far more interesting record. The guy elevates everybody he ever played with. Alan White is at best, a malleable, competent drummer who doesn't impose himself on the music. Which pretty much is what everyone else in Yes did, including Bruford, and that's probably why he has lasted so long in the band. He doesn't compete with anybody. But the competition within is often/usually what made Yes great.

 

Absolutely: Alan White was immense!

 

I’ve loved Yes since the early 1970’s. For whatever it’s worth, the current state of the band(s) is ridiculous.

 

I think you need to cut White some slack on Yessongs: he’d only just joined the band.

His playing on Relayer, is just extraordinary, not at all as you describe.

 

Bill can't really be pigeonholed as either, but whatever. He's played music with rock and jazz players. His resume leans slightly towards rock, I suppose.

Doesn't matter anyway - there's no way Bill would have ended up on Relayer, and Alan's work on the album is tremendous. He's a monster on the whole thing.

 

Alan White’s playing on Sound Chaser is nothing less that great.