Perhaps some of the subsequent discussion above should be moved to the dedicated thread for PONR ? Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion: "Point of No Return" - rec. 1961*
It's true. It's not a despairing album. It's mournful but also, there's a sense of acceptance, of truly letting go. There's isn't another album like it in his catalogue. And that isn't always a compliment. Those weird tape splices on songs like "These Foolish Things," remind you of Sinatra's rushed mindset at the time. Self-sabotaging something that should've been a masterpiece. The album feels weirdly hurried. And yet there are so many flashes of brilliance and some true gems.
"South to a Warmer Place".... like you moving from the Great Northwest to the balmy Central Plains!!!!!
Hello, To clear up any misconceptions, the vast majority of Ric Ross' FS collection is and will stay intact. I am a long time FS collector who purchased Ric's collection in 2017 through the Profiles in History auction house to add to my own collection. Much of what I have put on ebay, which is a tiny fraction (<1%) of Ric's collection, duplicates mine, esp. in the LP area, as well as other items that I have more than one copy of or autographs of which I have many. Many of the FS items on ebay are in fact from my own collection, not Ric's. There are cumulatively tens of thousands of photos, reel tapes, lobby cards, books, magazines, cds, dvds, cassette tapes, video tapes, 78s/45s, sheet music, band charts, original master recordings, session material, publicity material, letters, press releases in the collection, none of which has been sold nor do I intend to sell it. I am also keeping intact all of Ric's material on FS' career activity, including Ric's famous diary of FS' daily work. In addition, I am in the process of converting all his reel tapes to CD so that all of this rare material will be preserved for posterity. If any at this forum are friends of Ric, I would appreciate you passing this on to him so that he understands nearly all of his collection is going to be maintained as he put it together. Regards, Jim M. (no relation to FS' former PR man although we share the same name)
Thank you for clearing all of this up! Many of us old collectors have been trying to find out who got that collection as it has been so hush-hush. It is extremely refreshing to know that incredible collection is in good hands! I apologize if bringing any of this up caused you any disturbance. It is all for the love of Mr. S and the care for his legacy. FYI, if you are keeping it all in the same old place here in So Cal and need any help, I live in Hollywood and would be willing to do whatever I can. I almost got to see it once. But unfortunately Ric's lovely wife passed away at the time and it never happened.
They say there is a special place in Heaven for Ric and all his buddies who gave us so much unofficial FS
The collection is now up here in Oakland where I live. Still going through it to catalog it all with primary focus on getting the reel tapes, many of which date to the 1960s, onto CD.
One of my dear friends, now deceased, was a major FS collector with a mind blowing tape collection that was not on bootleg. Probably equal to, and I believe likely even better than Ric's. After his death, his daughter saved all of the records and CDs but sent all of the tapes to the dump, as a dealer told her tapes were worthless. I had not interceded, not wanting to ask about the tapes
I knew the work of Frank Sinatra precisely through the album "Strangers In The Night". Nelson Riddle's arrangements are simply a blow, except the arrangement of the title track, signed by Ernie Freeman. But even with some very interesting recordings, I find the Reprise phase filled with pretense, especially at the release of "Sinatra's Sinatra" in 1963. I simply do not swallow this record because you want to outdo the recordings at Capitol, even though was to increase sales of the new label. So, as soon as I discovered Frank's Capitol period, I was definitely conquered. The Capitol phase, in my opinion, is full of vigor, sophistication and emotion in perfect harmony, even though many recordings were exclusively monaural and a few stumbling blocks from Capitol itself compromised the quality of Frank's albums, even though this one, in my view too was responsible in parts. I carry the hope, regardless of the circumstances, that soon there will be the definitive work of recovery of the Sinatra collection, be it of the Capitol or Reprise, that can be accessible to both the audiophile-exclusive market and to other consumers.
I seriously disagree. Whether or not FS may have had any ulterior motive, that is a great record. I do not find any fault with any artist who wishes to re-interpret his earlier works.
As the Prince advised the Capulets and the Montagues, do give more thought to these things. Sinatra's reasons were creative and technical. He had evolved, grown, matured, and he needed to re-record some of the old songs to express the change in himself, while taking advantage of improved recording technology. He had done the same thing at Capitol, find his new voice, perfecting his phrasing, learning to leave the croon behind, re-discovering the meaning and emotional relevance of songs he had recorded at Columbia. There was also new material mixed in with the old at Reprise. For instance, the albums September of My Years and Watertown were not possible in the 1950s.
I agree with your opinion and thanks for expressing it, but I still find the Reprise phase very pretentious, compared to the Capitol phase. But I point out that there are undisputedly beautiful records in the Reprise like Academy Winners, I Remember Tommy (Sensational), the already mentioned September of my Years, Watertown, the final She Shot Me Down and the irreplaceable album with Tom Jobim.
I also do not see problem in rewriting the repertoire. I just think the record did not convince me. It sounds too automatic to me.
i know very little of frank. beyond what i favor. but as i recall, the nelson riddle stuff was an inspired period of recordings. that and any/all basie stuff.
Okay, I expressed myself badly. I apologize. In fact, I do not like the "Sinatra's Sinatra" because it sounds automatic and some of Frank's stuff in the Reprise. Now, regarding the album "Ol'd Blue Eyes is Back", this is a masterpiece. One thing I think is good about this project (if my sources are correct) is that Gordon Jenkins conducted his and Don Costa's arrangements, which resulted in the sonic beauty of this album.
I'll mention that the new documentary Sinatra In Palm Springs is coming out on Blu-ray in a couple of weeks. The review hasn't been posted yet due to the standard review embargo. Features Barbara Sinatra and interviews with Tom Dreesen, among others.
I can't agree with you on this. The album is deeply felt, the songs and order of the songs carefully chosen, the very opposite of automatic. It moves me, which is perhaps why I'm so insistent in my disagreement. Hadn't heard about this. Thanks for the alert.
Hi Matt, I am playing the Italian LP of "Cycles" (titled "Rain in my heart"). It's a WEIRD mix: the left channel is much louder. The right channel sounds like a VERY attenuated replica of the left. The voice in particular does not only seem attenuated, but with some sort of reverb. There is also some backing guitar strums and some string instruments in the right channel that are NOT present in the left one. With headphones, it's completely disorienting. Very unbalanced. Is it the same on the US LP?
It's....OK. But you get the feeling that despite all the interviews it was done from afar and on a low budget. No (or extremely few) likenesses of Mr. S as I recall. It does tell the story well for those who have not seen or read about it previously on TV or in magazines.
The album was processed with the system Paul mentioned, Haeco-CSG. This was done by some for a short while circa 1968 when mono LPs were being discontinued in the USA. The system put the center part of stereo image partially out of phase by adjusting the phase of one channel by appx. 90 degrees. While this could never help with a mono cartridge that had no vertical compliance from chewing through a stereo groove (since that is a physical issue that can't be "fixed"), it helped to offset the problem of the center portion of a stereo mix becoming too loud vs the rest if folded down/summed to mono. However, it ruined the stereo image by introducing phase issues, including leaving an image with relatively indistinct placement, along with the audible consequence beyond the image. Whether the Italian LP is mastered in a way that possibly exacerbates these problems, and maybe introducing others, is hard for me to say without hearing what you are. Your description leads me to believe so. I only know the sound of the US LPs and the CD version.
It would be good if anyone who takes care of Sinatra's re-releases, whether in physical formats or in the digital market, re-releases That's Life album with a new, more powerful stereo mix. The original stereo mix is very weak and sounds strange to me. By the way, is the recent LP edition of the "100" series better in sound or does it retain the original mix?
I say it again...Jimmy Bowen and stereo never got along. If it's a Jimmy Bowen produced record...get the mono. As an aside, it's a shame Mr. S did not maintain the original tempo of the chart. It would have so much better if he didn't mess with it as he did.
IMHO, Frank was always more concerned with perfecting his interpretation and background to convey his ideas than how he could technically help, since his job was to sing. I would not be wrong to think that way, but I think he was partly responsible for some of the technical errors of his records, whether it's the Capitol or the Reprise period and no matter how much technology has advanced and improved things. Sinatra was always the big boss most of the time and he had the need to control everything and everyone so that everything worked the way he felt comfortable and that hurt him in the technical part of his records, when he could have had the sensitivity to collaborate in what he could so that the quality of his discs were better than they were. I do not see Frank as an audiophile enough to do what I think he could have done. I recognize that he really did his best to sing the songs in the best possible way, but he could be more cooperative with the sound technicians. Nat King Cole's albums often outnumber those of Sinatra at Capitol in the recording and mixing aspect, even though Frank had the most demanding productions, orchestra and arrangements.
