Frank Sinatra's Capitol and Reprise recordings now under one roof

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Bob F, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. Chris C

    Chris C Music was my first love and it will be my last!

    I did not know that Larry's discs were before Bob's, that is news to me?

    Because Larry was paid, I have to be happy with what he and that Sinatra estate are dishing out?
  2. AJH

    AJH Senior Member

    PA Northern Tier
    As I recall (and my memory could be faulty), one of the requirements the family and Concord had for the Reprise re-issues was that they wanted a more “modern” and “updated” sound. This is something most of us on this board really don’t want or like. Generally, what we want is a transfer from the original (or best available) mono or stereo master tape with a minimal but proper application of sonic manipulation. I’m confident Larry could deliver either product. My guess is that he was asked to do the Concord project because of his past association with the Capitol Sinatra material, he decided to accept the assignment, and he delivered exactly what he was asked to produce.

    There’s always a choice an engineer can make, or something that he is told to do, specific individuals will not like. I do consider Larry Walsh an excellent engineer, but there’s a Capitol Sinatra CD where I actually prefer (God forgive me) Bob Norberg’s version to Larry Walsh’s version (I hate to admit it, but it’s true). Additionally, I own around thirty CD’s Steve mastered, and there are two or three where I honestly prefer the original release mastering to Steve’s (and I’ll bet Steve’s versions are much closer to the various original master tapes than the regular release versions I happen to prefer). Neither engineer did anything wrong. This is a result of the way I personally like things to sound, and the way my system reproduces these specific CD’s.

    I would suggest that, except for some rare exceptions (MFSL, Audio Fidelity, etc.), the way the Concord Sinatra CD’s were produced is simply the way the music industry currently does things. Eventually, most Sinatra fans caught-on, and refused to buy the Concord releases.

    howlinrock and Bob F like this.
  3. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Massachusetts USA
    You asked:
    I gave you the obvious answer (and a smiley face). It was a job. Happiness may have had little to do with it.

    As for the historical sequence: Yes, the Walsh-mastered discs were the very first Sinatra Capitol concept album CD releases, beginning in 1987 (now out-of-print in the US). The Norberg "20-bit" and "24-bit" remasters replaced those much later for the "Entertainer of the Century" series and CONCEPTS box set in 1998–2002. A clear case of newer not necessarily being better.
    bozburn, howlinrock and Chris C like this.
  4. El Bacho

    El Bacho Forum Resident

    Paris, France
    From what I heard from the guys at MoFi, they have (all the?) master tapes for the next bunch of reissues in their vaults. It took time to get the tapes, not just because of the merger, but because some of the original unadulterated tapes hadn't actually been used for decades and it took time to find them.
    As long as they have a valid contract with Capitol and the estate, the merger and the unification of the catalog shouldn't change a thing for the five concerned titles. The people who now handle the catalog may have another licensing policy for future reissues, but a contract is a contract is a contract.

    In addition to Sinatra, MoFi is currently taking care of the Dylan catalog. There was a big hiatus after Blonde on Blonde but Desire is apparently ready to ship.
    huge logo, mpayan and bozburn like this.
  5. bktouchstone

    bktouchstone Forum Resident

    Central CO
    I truly hope you are correct and these get released. As a practical matter the contract may contain approval rights over the final product which could be used to effectively prevent their being released. Keeping fingers crossed.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2013
  6. mpayan

    mpayan Forum Resident

    I gotta stop reading this thread...
    DJ WILBUR likes this.
  7. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Malverne, NY
    Hello Sinatra fans,

    This is my first post here and certainly not my last. I'm also a huge Tony Bennett fan.

    I think this is exciting news! The possibilities seem endless for FSE to release superb box sets for the Centennial. I truly believe they will not mess it up.

    I have always dreamed that FSE would start a Bootleg Series a la Bob Dylan.

    bozburn, howlinrock and rangerjohn like this.
  8. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    chicago, il
    Welcome Robert!

    DJ WILBUR The Cappuccino Kid

  10. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Lodi, New Jersey
    Hello Robert!
  11. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Great idea! Put me down for a preorder.

    And, of course, welcome to the forum. Like Hotel California, "You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave." :)
    rangerjohn likes this.
  12. bozburn

    bozburn Forum Resident

    Rome, GA, US
    We can only hope!! Anything never-before heard, and studio chatter/rehearsal is always fascinating, making me feel like I'm there in the studio with Frank and Nelson, Billy, Gordon, etc.
    colormesinatra likes this.
  13. colormesinatra

    colormesinatra Forum Resident

    Malverne, NY
    FSE could certainly construct really nice DELUXE editions of many of Frank albums with studio chatter and rehearsals, etc. the original album on disc 1 and the everything else from the sessions on disc 2.

    I could also see (now that the recordings are "under one roof") FSE construct complete Nelson Riddle sets and/or Gordon Jenkins sets.

    bozburn likes this.
  14. kennyluc1

    kennyluc1 Frank Sinatra collector

    They could start with "Trilogy" there is enough unreleased material to do a great deluxe cd.
  15. David m bond

    David m bond Forum Resident

    The problem we have is that the market for the general public is very different to the market for the MFSL discs.

    As MFSL have some of the master tapes already, one way of doing it could be to release the sacd/cd deluxe version in mini lp as they are doing now and then just release a cd only barebones edition in normal cd case but using the same remaster as the deluxe set thereby offering at a lower cost and potentially appealing to both audiences.
  16. Batears52

    Batears52 Forum Resident

    Near Baltimore, MD
    I tend to get a little OCD when it comes to things like this. Not only do I think that MoFi should complete the titles they have contracted for, but also be given the opportunity to finish his Capitol "albums": his first 2 albums for the label, Close To You, Come Dance With Me, Come Swing With Me. An expanded This Is Sinatra would be nice too, but I'm not pushing my luck!
    bozburn and DLant like this.
  17. MarkusGermany

    MarkusGermany WINNING

    Rheinberg, Germany
    ... don't forget 'A Jolly Christmas"!
    DLant likes this.
  18. Batears52

    Batears52 Forum Resident

    Near Baltimore, MD
    Well....I didn't "forget" it - I sort of left it out. Sadly, I don't think we will ever see audiophile releases of Christmas albums anymore. (When Steve asked which one of Nat King Cole's albums we would most like to see get the audiophile SACD treatment, Nat's The Magic Of Christmas / The Christmas Song album was mentioned a lot.) Frank's holiday classic is in the same boat.

    The selling season for Christmas music is so short. The only way I would ever imagine this happening is if they released it after Christmas - like in February - so it would not compete with the label's general release in the fall.

    But we can dream!
  19. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    Yeah! Sony will screw that up like they did with the blue box using alternate takes in place of the master take.
    In the process, you now have to buy a 2-CD best of which has the master takes that are missing in the 12-CD set.
    I wouldn't count on them to do anything right, even the V-Disc set was done halfassed.

    A superbox would be nice but who could afford it?
    That would be somewhere around 60 discs.
  20. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member Thread Starter

    Massachusetts USA
    Chuck Granata has explained quite clearly why (a few) alternate takes were chosen for the blue box. It was very intentional, not a "screw-up." See: Clarification (and other lengthy discussion in that thread).
  21. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Lodi, New Jersey
    What didn't you like about it?
  22. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    See the Miles Davis, Tony Bennett, Bob Dylan and Johnny Cash complete box sets for recent examples.
  23. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Hollywood, CA
    I AGREE! that Big Blue Box brought me to love the Columbia Sinatra in a BIG way! I ignored that period mostly due to inferior sound quality. Then came " The Voice: The Columbia Years" in the 80's and I began to pay attention. Once I had that 12 CD box set of "The Complete Columbia Years" in my possession, I could not stop playing it! Then came that 4 CD box set "A Voice in Time" with even finer remastering and WOW!

    Any complaints about what Sony has done to their Sinatra catalog are unfounded IMHO.
    MichaelM and Bob F like this.
  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Agreed. (I mean, maybe a couple of super-picky nitpicky things, but overall, it's truly exemplary, IMO.) Too bad the original recordings are not better in some cases, but the handling/mastering of those recordings is tops. Hats off to Chuck & Dieder & Company.
    Hamhead likes this.
  25. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    Shoddy sources, incomplete, but the packaging was nice.
    The 4-CD set on V-Disc/Collector's Choice was superior which is complete and was mastered from mint condition discs. The book was miniscule compared to the one from the Sony set.

    The Miles box is out of reach if you're referring to the "trumpet case" set.
    I have that feeling the TSF will not allow FS to be packaged in a cardboard box with paper sleeves, he's the Chairman Of The Board. The package is going to be more than elaborate.
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013

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