Frank Zappa Song By Song Thread (1966-96)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Zoot Marimba, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    "It Must Be A Camel" An intricate piece with a melody which I would have loved to heard performed by Miles' second quintet. This is a piece which is not jazz, nor rock, nor (you name it). It has "Zappa" written all over it.

    Ian handles the usual variety of instruments, the Guerin/Bennett section is versatile as always, Ponty adds some subtle violin touches, and Frank offers an excellent final solo to the album.

    I can't decide whether I prefer the original mix or the remix. The tonality of the original is better (drums sound a million times better, more bottom end, etc), but the wider intrumentation of the remix is better. Thus, I gotta have both.

    What's not to like about Hot Rats? Nothing! Weel, maybe that is not a 4-LP set :D
     
  2. The differences in the mix are essential to hear since they're from the composer himself. But this is a case where I vastly prefer the original one. I don't know what he did to his guitar tone in the 80s, in one of the final breaks, to change it so radically like that... Almost as if he re-recorded it. Like he wanted it to sound more modern, heavier or something...

    Anyway the woodwind/keyboards section right after the guitar solo features I think the most changes in the mix, enhancing some electronic keyboard parts and almost "turning off" things like the lovely clarinet melody and grand piano left-hand part... I always miss these... Yet it's still great to hear the other parts highlighted for the first time on the 80s version.
     
    Therefore, Zoot Marimba and Rne like this.
  3. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    And now to cover Zappa related efforts of this time period, starting with.....
    Trout Mask Replica:
    [​IMG]
    The third studio album by Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band. Produced by Beefheart’s high school friend Frank Zappa, the album is (in)famous for its free form music which....
    1. Lacks traditional melodies
    2. Makes prominent use of atonality.
    3. Sounds like a bunch of amateurs and everyone is playing a different song-at least at first glance.
    4. Goes from avant garde to blues to free jazz with the odd spoken word piece.
    5. And stretches this over the course of four sides of vinyl.
    So it’s not known for being something to play over your grocery store speakers. But some of the best music of all time is music you don’t get on the first listen. And when given time and attention, this proves to be a highly engaging record which really can change the way you look at music. It is the musical equivalent of Picasso; there is structure but it’s twistwd and bended into an odd shape. And those amateurs are actually accomplished musicians who wanted through eight months of grueling (and frankly nightmarish) preparation to get it right.
    Not the easiest music to get into and probably not the first Beefheart record I’d point someone to, but it’s status as a classic is well deserved.
     
  4. mcchocchoc

    mcchocchoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    Trout Mask Replica. Keeping this post very short . . . One of my all time favorite albums.

    Last week Victor Hayden passed away. R.I.P Mascara Snake.

    Not too long ago (earlier this year) Jeff Cotton did an interview. That is a very rare thing. I started a thread about it, the interview is there if any of you who are interested missed it.

    Jeff Cotton speaks! Ex-Captain Beefheart Magic Band guitarist
     
    Therefore, Zoot Marimba and Rne like this.
  5. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    I have shared my personal experience with Trout Mask Replica on several threads, and since I don't want to type it again, I'm gonna arrogantly quote myself ( :nyah: ):

     
  6. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Oh damn!
     
    mcchocchoc likes this.
  7. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
  8. mcchocchoc

    mcchocchoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    Sadly, Frank's brother Bob also passed away last week. Bob's two books are really nice reads. Bob also played guitar on 'Lost in A Whirlpool', released on 'The Lost Episodes'.
     
  9. laether

    laether Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phobos
    You seem to nail it here! Like my own thoughts....was eager to give this a spin, tried once...did not get at all....couldnt even finish the thing if im being honest. but after reading your post feel i still might have "hope"....
     
    Zoot Marimba likes this.
  10. Remington Steele

    Remington Steele Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saint George, Utah
    Arthur Tripp was a regular customer at my dad's music store in the 1980s. He had some interesting stories about how Beefheart composed music.
     
  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    Trout Mask Replica has been labelled the ultimate room clearing album ...
    I think that's a bit harsh, but it certainly isn't for everyone. For the band it is a phenomenal achievement. To put Beefheart's psychotic ideas in shape despite being virtually starved and abused for a year learning how to play this material, due to a lot of it being technically impossible (ie the Beef getting upset that a guitar doesn't have the same octave range as a piano etc) was a brilliant achievement.
    Do I think this album is the masterpiece many claim? .... No, not really. It is a great achievement by the band, it is interesting, it is different, it is trendy in some cliques to say it is, but to me, I don't think so (and I do know that is subjective)
    Do I think the album is worth hearing? Yes, but if you aren't familiar with the styling, it will need you to give it quite a few listens to figure it out and give it a chance to work its way through.

    Everyone I have ever played the album to has said one of two things
    - Please take that off
    - Are they all playing a different song than each other
    If you're new to this album, that will more than likely be your first impression, unless you listen almost exclusively to avant guarde or really alternate music (and I don't mean nine inch nails or cake or whatever)

    This album is incredibly interesting and it does have some incredible musical moments, but it also has some weak moments too, and in the context of this kind of music, the weak moments can really lead you to question the whole.
     
  12. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Wasn't that around the time he became a chiropractor?
     
  13. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    I remember my mother asking me if the CD was playing correctly one day I was listening to "Frownland". I chuckled and told her the cd drive was working perfectly alright :laugh: In time, everyone at home got accustomed to the Magic Band's sound.
     
  14. mcchocchoc

    mcchocchoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    Haha! Nice. Lucky for me, my wife (of 23 years now) is also a longtime big fan of Beefheart. That said, I have had people react very negatively to that album over the years. I don't get that. It's just a heavy blues album, man! lol.
     
    Therefore and Zoot Marimba like this.
  15. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    GTO's, Permanent Damage:
    [​IMG]

    Permanent Damage is the only studio album by the GTO's, a girl group put together by Frank as a tribute to the groupies of Los Angeles. The group consisted of Miss Pamela (the famed Pamela Des Barres), Miss Christine- who babysat Moon and is the cover model on Hot Rats, Miss Cynderella, Miss Sandra-who married Calvin Schenkel later on, and Miss Sparky. The record was produced by Frank with assistance from Russ Titleman and Lowell George, who wrote the music for select tracks. Davy Jones (yes, that Davy Jones) also co-wrote select tracks, and besides Lowell, other Mothers contributed to the album such as Don (who co-wrote one song), Ian, Roy, and Jimmy. Also contributing to one songs is the late great Nicky Hopkins.
    It's a quirky record, but it does have a certain charm to it. The GTOs have a good chemistry together, particularly on the spoken word tracks, and are fairly engaging personalities. And it's just interesting to hear the groupies on the other side of the booth, warts and all. If you like so-bad-it's-good records, give it a shot.
     
  16. mcchocchoc

    mcchocchoc Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oregon
    Interesting album. I have the original LP and the old enegima cd. I like some of it a lot, some not at all. Your last sentence sums it up well (I am often a fan of the so bad it's good thing).

    Not much to add, but I do seem to recall reading that Frank had Ian run most of the recording sessions.?. Maybe it was a different act on the label (Jeff, Sandy . ? . ) . . . anybody recall that?

    Here's a nice little number about Beefheart and his shoes.

     
  17. jeddy

    jeddy Forum Resident

    Just a couple more thoughts on TMR

    Frank envisioned this and recorded it as a "field recording"
    Some Lomax styled anthroprologic recording...

    And the complexity of the somgs are definately not just random "squonk"
    All the various takes on the GROW FINS box shows
    the band rehearsing the tunes again and again!
     
    Therefore and Zoot Marimba like this.
  18. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    He did indeed, but Beefheart insisted on recording in a studio and thought Frank was trying to cut corners (tbf, Frank could be somewhat stingy).

    Forgot to add that The Mothers’ performance of Charles Ives was used for The Blimp.
     
    Therefore and ParloFax like this.
  19. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I like how relaxed FZ sounds on "The Blimp" (although Bill Harkleroad mentions in his book that it ends typically with FZ saying he needs to get back to work).
     
  20. vanhooserd

    vanhooserd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville,TN
    Paul Humphrey was Lawrence Welk's drummer 1976-82. We see him sometimes on the Welk Show re-runs on our local PBS station.
     
  21. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    And he played with Wes Montgomery, Charles Mingus, Marvin Gaye, Joe Cocker, Steely Dan, and Sammy Davis Jr among others.
     
  22. Rne

    Rne weltschmerz

    Location:
    Malaver
    And those field recordings at the Magic Band's house sounded really great, if you ask me!
     
    Therefore, ParloFax and Zoot Marimba like this.
  23. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    My username probably gives me away. TMR is a signal achievement in Western music and nobody will ever convince me otherwise. Here's a cool video of an alternate take of "Orange Claw Hammer."

     
  24. Zoot Marimba

    Zoot Marimba And I’m The Critic Of The Group Thread Starter

    Location:
    Savannah, Georgia
    Let’s meet up with the Wild Man shall we?
    An Evening With Wild Man Fischer:
    [​IMG]
    The debut effort of Wild Man Fischer, a schizophrenic street performer that Frank encountered on the Sunset Strip and took a fancy to. The record is split into four sides of vinyl with different themes; first side is The Basic Fischer: a field recording of Wild Man performing songs for people for a dime, with percussion by Art added later on. Side Two is Larry’s Songs Unaccompanied. Side Three is Haitorial Notes, consisting of Wild Man’s earliest Songs and his stories of writing them, with the odd field recording thrown in. And finally Side Four is Inclusion. Besides Art, the Mothers as a whole perform piano, bass, and drums on “The Taster (Fancy Version)” and Frank contributes guitar to various tracks as well as additional instrumentation on “Circle”.
    It’s an...odd record. I remember listening to it early and I wasn’t so much angry as... confused. You’re kind of just baffled but what you’re hearing (or seeing). It’s not a conventionally good record but it’s certainly not bland.
     
  25. Remington Steele

    Remington Steele Forum Resident

    Location:
    Saint George, Utah
    Must have been the early 80s.
     
    Zoot Marimba likes this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine