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Frank Zappa: The History And Collected Improvisations Of The Mothers Of Invention

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by SM7609, Jul 26, 2011.

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  1. SM7609

    SM7609 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Waterbury, CT, USA
    Hey all,

    Here's an excerpt from the new version of my ZAPPA SUPPLEMENT book, suggesting a way to reconstruct the legendary unreleased 1969 12-LP History And Collected Improvisations...set. Thought I'd run it by you all and see what you think :)


    The Puzzle Re-Assembled


    So: What Was the Box?
    – or –
    What Were the Boxes?


    So, now that we’ve given you a basic history of History, one very important question remains: what WAS History? How much of this has been made available to collectors? How much remains to be heard?

    In short, the answer to these questions can be summed up thusly: no one knows. And no one will likely EVER know, as the real answers apparently departed this earth with Frank Zappa. What remains is like a puzzle of a surrealistic painting, the likes of which Dali could never have dreamed up.

    In short, it seems likely that much of the original History project(s) WERE released to the public. Sources with some knowledge of such material as remains in the Zappa Vault have stated that no reels of the complete Mystery project have ever been found. The best and most likely hypothesis is this: when FZ came to assemble subsequent projects such as the Mystery Discs and the You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore series, he selected material from the History box directly from the reels, disassembling them in the process. With no liner note material known to exist, this removed any possibility of the Zappa Family Trust being able to issue The History And Collected Improvisations Of The Mothers Of Invention in its original, intended form.

    So where does that leave us “maniacs with a complete record collection”? Part of the fun of what is known as “Zappology” is playing the WWFD? Game, or “What Would Frank Do?” If one looks at the puzzle pieces that are available to collectors, it IS possible to assemble a reasonably-convincing facsimile of the original 12-LP version of History from these available pieces. The result will NEVER be exactly what FZ intended to release, and of course countless permutations of this material can be made from these pieces. In this section, we suggest A LISTENING EXPERIENCE: using these materials, you too can assemble your very own History box. Feel free to move the pieces around as your see fit.

    The first question is this: what do we KNOW about History? What is beyond question? We know that the original box set was to consist of 12 LPs, and we know what the titles of these LPs were. However, apart from the first disc (The Cucamonga Era) there is little in the titling of the albums that could indicate an approximate era that an individual album covers. Almost certainly, after the first couple of albums the set would have taken tapes from any performance (from 1965-1969 that is) and assembled them in a randomized fashion.

    We do however possess at least a few FZ-edited sequences that can be attributed to the History project in one form or another. These include the Artisan Acetate, The Weasel Music acetate and the Columbia Test Pressing (though the latter is more likely to derive from the later 9-LP History lineup). The bulk of the remaining material is taken from all over the Zappa Map. But then Frank was never interested in making it easy, was he?

    If you desire to piece together your own 12-LP History And Collected Improvisations Of The Mothers Of Invention set, here is a list of ingredients you will need:

    1. Rustic Protrusion bootleg (Mud Shark) or We Are The Mothers And This Is What We Sound Like bootleg (fake “Bizarre”). Reissued in several different forms, this is the best source for the “Columbia Test Pressing” which most likely is derived from the 9-LP version of History, although this is debatable.

    2. An Evening With Frank Zappa And Captain Beefheart bootleg CD, or any knockoffs containing the complete 1975 KWST radio show.

    3. Mystery Disc official CD (Ryko).

    4. The 1971 David Walley Interview tape (currently available as a torrent).

    5. The Lost Episodes official CD (Ryko).

    6. You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 official CD (Ryko).

    7. Joe’s Corsage official CD (Zappa Records).

    8. MoFO 2-CD version official CD (Zappa Records).

    9. MoFO 4-CD version official CD (Zappa Records).

    10. The “Uncle Meat acetate” from the No Commercial Potential project (currently available as a torrent).

    11. Apocrypha bootleg CD box set (Great Dane).

    12. You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 1 official CD (Ryko).

    13. Weasels Ripped My Flesh official LP (Warner/Reprise).

    14. Burnt Weeny Sandwich official LP (Warner/Reprise) NOTE: This is highly debatable, as has been noted earlier in this book. The album has been included here as it remains possible that it was extracted from the 12-LP version of History.

    15. The “Artisan Acetate” which most likely is derived from the 12-LP History set (currently available as a torrent).

    16. The Ark bootleg LP (Fake “Bizarre”) (also released in an alternate edit in the first Beat The Boots package—the original vinyl bootleg is preferable as the BTB version suffers from speed issues)

    17. The Weasel Music acetate (currently available as a torrent).

    18. Ahead Of Their Time official CD (Ryko).

    19. Trick Or Treat bootleg (fake “Bizarre”).

    20. A copy of the FZ Explains unaired radio show, currently available in streaming form at www.zappa.com.



    What follows is one possible approach to compiling a History set from these materials. Obviously this is highly debatable, and innumerable changes can be made to the lineup to make it work. Also, there are very possibly pieces here that do not belong to the original History set, although arguments are given as to why they might belong to it.


    LP 1 – Before The Beginning

    Compiled from the most obvious material that would have formed the basis for this disc. The Columbia Test Pressing seems as good as any a place to derive the first side from.

    Side One:

    1. Lost In A Whirlpool
    2. The Blackouts
    3. Ronnie Sings?
    4. Kenny’s Booger Story
    5. Ronnie’s Booger Story
    6. “The Booger Freaks Of America” (exact title unknown)
    7. Any Way The Wind Blows
    8. Fountain Of Love
    9. Opus 5
    10. Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance
    Tracks 1-10 taken, in this sequence, from the “Columbia Test Pressing” (1). It seems likely that this LP is derived from the 9-LP History lineup, and represents an authentic FZ construction. There seems to be evidence to suggest that this could in fact be the actual side 1 of Before The Beginning, give or take the MOI demos near the end of the sequence.

    Side Two:

    1. Theme From “Run Home Slow”
    2. Original Duke Of Prunes
    3. Opening Night At “Studio Z”
    4. The Village Inn
    5. Steal Away
    6. I Was A Teen-Age Maltshop
    7. The Birth Of Captain Beefheart
    The above tracks taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3) with the exception of the extended “opening Night At ‘Studio Z’ which is partially sourced from the David Walley interview (4). These are FZ edits.

    8. “Original ‘Status Back Baby’” (speculative title)
    9. “Ned The Mumbler” (speculative title)
    10. “Original ‘Toads Of The Short Forest’” (speculative title)
    Above tracks taken from the Zappa/Beefheart KWST-FM broadcast (2). All remain unreleased commercially. These are FZ edits from the History set.

    11. Excerpt From “The Uncle Frankie Show”
    12. Charva
    The above tracks taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3). These are FZ edits.


    LP 2 – The Cucamonga Era

    Things start getting confusing right here, as the line between “The Beginning” and “The Cucamonga Era” must be blurred to make this work. It seems possible that this would have bled into the early Mothers era (although Before The Beginning did this as well). Below is an attempt to reconstruct such an album.

    Side One:

    1. Tiger Roach
    2. Run Home Cues, #2
    Taken from The Lost Episodes CD (5).

    3. Metal Man Has Won His Wings
    4. Power Trio From The Saints ‘n Sinners
    5. Bossa Nova Pervertamento
    6. Speed Freak Boogie
    The above tracks taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3). These are FZ edits.

    7. Original Mothers At The Broadside
    The above track is an edit of the Mystery Disc (3) version of the track with the one heard on the Walley tape (4). It can be argued the version of this track heard on the KWST radio show (2) is just as usable, although there it is even more obscured than the other version , though at least it’s by Frank and Don’s singing along. Taken together, this replicates an FZ edit.

    8. Party Scene From “Mondo Hollywood”
    The above track taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3). This is an FZ edit.

    9. Original Mothers Rehearsal
    The above track is an edit of the Mystery Disc (3) version of the track with the one heard on the KWST radio show (2). In this instance, if you remove the left channel of the KWST track you can get this recording with FZ’s 1975 narration very low in the mix. Taken together, this replicates an FZ edit.


    10. How Could I Be Such A Fool?
    The above track taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3). This is an FZ edit.

    Side Two:

    1. Band Introductions At Fillmore West
    2. Plastic People
    The above tracks taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3). This is an FZ edit.

    3. Run Home Cues, #3
    Taken from The Lost Episodes CD (5). An arbitrary placement, mostly for contrast and relief.

    4. The Downtown Talent Scout
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    5. I Ain’t Got No Heart
    6. Plastic People
    7. Motherly Love
    1965 MOI Demos from the Joe’s Corsage CD (7). All taken from a 1989 FZ-edited digital master, though it’s still possible these could have been originally intended for the History set.

    8. Watts Riot Demo/Fillmore Sequence
    Taken from the 2-CD version of MoFO (8). Taken from an FZ build reel, so it’s possible this could have been originally intended for the History set.

    9. I’m Not Satisfied
    Taken from the Walley tape (4). This is a 1965 demo of this song, though it is incomplete—for the sake of completeness you may wish to edit the Walley tape into the 1966 rough mix from the MoFO 4-CD set (9).


    LP 3 – Show And Tell

    The material here is taken exclusively from the 4-CD MoFO set (9). All of the tracks are denoted in the MoFO liner notes as being taken from FZ build reels (compilation reels destined for an ultimately unrealized project) so again it stands to reason that the purpose of separating these tracks was to stick them in the History box—providing a kind of “show and tell” into the making of the Freak Out! album.

    Side One:

    1. Wowie Zowie
    2. Percussion Object 1 & 2
    3. Who Are The Brain Police (Section A, C, B)
    4. Drum Track w/ Timp & Lion

    Side Two:

    1. Lion Roar & Drums From Freak Out
    2. Cream Cheese (Work Part)
    3. Hungry Freaks Daddy (Remix)
    The last two tracks are marked as 1970 remixes, so the link to History gets a little vague there. But it certainly does not discount it. More info on these “build reels” might shed more light on this mystery.


    LP 4 – What Does It All Mean

    This album, as presented in this fictitious scenario, is a real hodge-podge of items drawn from all over the map.


    Side One:

    1. Lecture From Royal Albert Hall Show
    From Mystery Disc (3). An appropriate intro, no?

    2. Agency Man
    This 1967/1968 studio outtake should most properly consist of an edit of the Mystery Disc (3) version and the version played by FZ on KSAN in 1968 as heard on the Apocrypha bootleg CD (11). The former has been edited by FZ.

    3. Medley: Let’s Make The Water Turn Black/Harry You’re A Beast/The Orange County Lumber Truck/Oh No
    From You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 1 CD (12).

    4. The Dick Kunc Story
    From The Lost Episodes CD (5).

    5. “All The Way Down To The Tonsils” (speculative title)
    From the No Commercial Potential acetate (10).

    6. The Big Squeeze
    From The Lost Episodes CD (5).

    7. The Story Of Willie The Pimp
    From Mystery Disc (3).

    8. Unknown (possibly untitled)
    From the No Commercial Potential acetate (10). A piece of musique concrete not included on the Uncle Meat album.

    9. Original Mothers At Fillmore East
    This side-ending live snippet should most properly consist of an edit of the Mystery Disc (3) version and that played by FZ during the David Walley interview (4). The former has been edited by FZ.


    Side Two:

    1. Eric Dolphy Memorial Barbecue
    From the Weasels Ripped My Flesh album (13).

    2. “Suzy Creamcheese Eating Cream Cheese”
    Dialogue segment played by FZ during the David Walley interview (4). This track was played following the On The Road “official bootleg” segment showcasing the 1970/1971 touring band, so its appearance in the History projecdt is purely speculative.

    3. Unknown (possibly untitled)
    From the No Commercial Potential acetate (10). Another piece of musique concrete not included on the Uncle Meat album.

    4. Cops And Buns
    From The Lost Episodes CD (5).

    5. Are You Upset?
    6. Piano/Drum Duet
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    7. Chucha
    From Mystery Disc (3).


    LP 5 – Rustic Protrusion

    This album consists essentially of Burnt Weeny Sandwich (14) minus the two doo-wop numbers. Again, its presence here is pure speculation based upon the idea that it hasn’t been absolutely disproven that this album was derived from the History project.

    Side One:

    1. Igor’s Boogie, Phase One
    2. Overture To A Holiday In Berlin
    3. Theme From Burnt Weeny Sandwich
    4. Igor’s Boogie, Phase Two
    5. Holiday In Berlin, Full Blown
    6. Aybe Sea

    Side Two:

    1. Little House I Used To Live In


    LP 6 – Several Boogie

    Another hodge-podge, showcasing the “rockin’” side of the MOI.


    Side One:

    1. “Sounds Like This” (speculative title)
    A live Lowell George guitar solo from the Columbia Test Pressing (1).

    2. Directly From My Heart To You
    3. Toads Of The Short Forest
    4. Dwarf Nebula Processional March
    From the Weasels Ripped My Flesh album (13).

    5. Dwarf Nebula (early version)
    From the Apocrypha bootleg CD (11). Recorded under the title “Randomonium”.

    6. Get A Little
    An edit of the Weasels Ripped My Flesh track (13) with an extended bit of the intro from the No Commercial Potential acetate (10).

    Side Two:

    1. Sweet Leilani
    From You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 1 CD (12).

    2. Boogie For Berkeley
    Taken from the longest extant version of this track, as heard during the David Walley interview (4).

    3. Alley Cat
    From The Lost Episodes CD (5).

    4. Baked Bean Boogie
    5. Where’s Our Equipment?
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    6. Black Beauty
    From Mystery Disc (3).


    LP 7 – The Merely Entertaining Mothers Of Invention Record

    This particular mish-mash showcases, as the title would suggest, the “fun side” of The Mothers.


    Side One:

    1. Mothers At KPFK
    From Mystery Disc (3).

    2. WPLJ
    Taken from Burnt Weeny Sandwich (14).

    3. Here Lies Love
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    4. Oh No
    Taken from the Weasels Ripped My Flesh album (13).

    5. My Head?
    6. Trouble Every Day
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    7. Harmonica Fun
    From Mystery Disc (3).

    Side Two:

    1. Plastic People
    From You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 1 CD (12).

    2. Wedding Dress Song/Handsome Cabin Boy
    From Mystery Disc (3).

    3. German Lunch
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    4. My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama
    Taken from the Weasels Ripped My Flesh album (13).

    5. Valarie
    Taken from Burnt Weeny Sandwich (14).


    LP 8 – The Heavy Business Record

    This is the speculative placement for the “Artisan Acetate” (15). Of course we have no clue what the actual title of this album (originally from the 12-LP History set) is, but this is as good a guess as any.

    Side One:

    1. Wipe Out
    2. East L.A.
    3. Weasels Ripped My Flesh
    4. Kung Fu
    5. Igor’s Boogie
    6. Passacaglia

    Side Two:

    1. Copenhagen Night Music
    2. Help I’m A Rock
    3. Chocolate Halvah
    4. Prelude To The Afternoon Of A Sexually Aroused Gas Mask
    5. The Cookie Jar Lecture
    6. It Must Be Your Breath


    LP 9 – Soup And Old Clothes

    Essentially this is The Ark bootleg (16) as issued by the “Fake Bizarre” label. The tapes for this album were stolen from TTG Studios in Hollywood where FZ had been working on them. It has not been established as fact, but it’s possible that this is an FZ construct, at least in part. Interestingly, the version of the album heard on the Beat The Boots box set features alternate edits of the first side material. The mystery deepens…could this actually be a part of History? Perhaps.

    Side One:

    1. Big Leg Emma
    2. Ballet Music
    3. Status Back Baby
    4. Valarie
    5. My Guitar Wants To Kill Your Mama

    Side Two:

    1. Medley: Uncle Meat/King Kong


    LP 10 – The Weasel Music

    Of course, we know that half of this album IS in fact The Weasel Music because we have a 1-sided acetate of that album in circulation (17). Side two is taken in its entirety from the Ahead Of Their Time (18) album—again, it fits there—just about.

    Side One:

    1. “Albert Hall Spoken Introduction” (speculative title)
    2. “Chamber Music Piece 1” (speculative title)
    3. Mozart Ballet
    4. “Some Zany Mothers Of Invention ********” (speculative title)
    5. “Chamber Music Piece 2” (speculative title)

    Side Two:

    1. King Kong
    2. Transylvania Boogie
    3. A Pound For A Brown On The Bus
    4. Sleeping In A Jar


    LP 11 – Soup And Old Clothes

    The Mothers Of Invention at the Royal Albert Hall, 1968. Side One is taken from the Mystery Disc CD (3) while Side Two hails from the Trick Or Treat vinyl bootleg issued by “Fake Bizarre” (20). Again, it stands to reason that side two—whose provenance is unknown—is in fact an FZ construction, part of which DID wind up on the official Weasels Ripped My Flesh album.

    Side One:

    1. Don Interrupts
    2. Piece One
    3. Jim-Roy
    4. Piece Two
    5. Agency Man

    Side Two:
    1. “Uncle Meat (One Note At A Time)” (speculative title)
    2. O, In The Sky
    3. Medley: Let’s Make The Water Turn Black/Harry You’re A Beast/The Orange County Lumber Truck/Oh No/The Orange County Lumber Truck


    LP 12 – Hotel Dixie

    Odds and ends (lost time is not found again). Randomonium to end the set. AAAFNRAA, remember?

    Side One:

    1. Didja Get Any Onya?
    From the Weasels Ripped My Flesh album (13).

    2. Charles Ives
    3. JCB & Kanzus On The Bus #1
    4. Run Home Show – Main Title Theme
    5. The Little March
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    6. Improvisation (title unknown)
    Short segment taken from the “Columbia Test Pressing” (1).

    7. A Pound For A Brown On The Bus
    8. Meow
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).

    9. Improvisation (title unknown)
    Short segment taken from the “Columbia Test Pressing” (1).

    Side Two:

    1. Right There
    2. Return Of The Hunch-Back Duke
    3. Where Is Johnny Velvet?
    4. Proto-Minimalism
    5. JCB & Kanzus On The Bus #2
    6. FZ-JCB Drum Duet
    7. A Game Of Cards
    8. No Waiting For The Peanuts To Dissolve
    Taken from You Can’t Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 5 CD (6).


    Of course, this is an imperfect representation of the original 12-LP box, and you may very well have your own thoughts on what should go here. Our advice is to play around with the material, unearth new new, feasible ideas and see what happens!
     
  2. dlokazip

    dlokazip Forum Transient

    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Very cool.

    This lineup is as good as any.
     
  3. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Some background on this for the unfamiliar:

    Side 1/Track 1: unreleased, Shrine Auditorium 1968
    Side 1/Track 2: longer edit of "You Call That Music?" (YCDTOSA 4)
    Side 1/Track 3: not the track released unde the title "WRMF," but the track "Skweezit Skweezit Skweezit"/"Right There" heard on Mystery Disc and YCDTOSA 5
    Side 1/Track 4: heard at the end of "Didja Get Any Onya" on the WRMF CD
    Side 1/Track 5: live (not the studio version from BWS)
    Side 1/Track 6: partially heard on a Hot Rats ad

    Side 2/Track 1: unreleased, live 1967 or 1968
    Side 2/Track 2: different edit of performance heard on Ahead Of Their Time
    Side 2/Track 3: different edit of performance heard on YCDTOSA 5
    Side 2/Track 4: heard on WRMF
    Side 2/Track 5: shorter edit of "Tiny Sick Tears" (YCDTOSA 4)
    Side 2/Track 6: this is the track officially released under the title "Weasels Ripped My Flesh"
     
    smokeverbs and Hep Alien like this.
  4. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Ever figured out what the complete set list was for the 1971 Fillmore East shows ??

    I think there were two nights - with early and late shows each night.


    I've tried to assemble the bits that we have on various releases into a "full" concert - but my running order is really just a guess.

    I'm guessing they did not do the "Mud Shark" and "Billy The Mountain" songs during any one specific concert.... I'm guessing one was a huge feature of the early show and the other was a huge feature of the late show...


    And I'm curious when John & Yoko hit the stage... I'm guessing end of the late show on the last night
     
  5. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Correct.

    There are a few recordings from other cities where they do both.

    As far as I know this is also correct.

    I don't think there's enough info out there yet to be certain about the Fillmore 71 setlists or even to make a strong guess (other than that they performed "King Kong" and the groupie medley at least twice during the run).
     
  6. smokeverbs

    smokeverbs Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit, MI, USA
    Excellent, I'm going to try this.
     
  7. Burnt

    Burnt Well-Known Member

    Well I have most of those releases, just missing a couple of the bootlegs. I guess I'll need to hunt them down now.

    Thanks for the great post.
     
  8. toptentwist

    toptentwist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Houston, TX

    I'd be real eager to see what a set list from another city on that tour looked like.
     
  9. 93curr

    93curr Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto
    'German Lunch' was gonna take up a whole side of the original set, no? What was eventually released was just a short excerpt.

    My mind's going - I'm damned if I can recall where I read that - Watson? The Real FZ Book? The Wire? I'm pretty sure I'd read it described somewhere before YCDTOA-5 came out.
     
  10. carledwards

    carledwards Forum Resident

    Makes me wanna go back to that box! I think I'll do just that. I haven't had that off the shelf in probably 15 years.
     
  11. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    In the 70's Lowell George mentioned the set in Zig Zag magazine: "I'm also on the 12-album set that Frank planned to release. I think I have half a side. I do a border guard routine. I'm a German border guard interviewing people as they cross the border. And I think I play one long relatively lame guitar solo, almost half a side."

    My guess is that the "lame guitar solo" is the one SM7609 has at the beginning of record six in his original post. As I recall it only runs around four minutes, so either Zappa had a different solo or a longer edit of this solo in mind, or Lowell was exaggerating (which I think is likely). There are also one or two different Lowell solos on YCDTOSA 5.
     
  12. Hamhead

    Hamhead The Bear From Delaware

    The uncut "German Lunch" came out as a single called "My Name Is Fritz" years ago. Have you tried to contact Joe Travers on the subject of any of the reels or documentation still exists.
     
  13. SM7609

    SM7609 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Waterbury, CT, USA
    Thanks for that Pat. I didn't take that into account ;-)
     
  14. SM7609

    SM7609 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Waterbury, CT, USA
    Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback!

    I had to re-write my original book due to the massive amount of new evidence that has come to light. I have asked Joe, and it appears that FZ pulled apart the original reels from the 12-LP set in order to create the Mystery Disc, YDTOSA etc...as the original reels do not appear to exist :-(
     
  15. Scope J

    Scope J Senior Member

    Location:
    Michigan
  16. ceddy10165

    ceddy10165 My life was saved by rock n roll

    Location:
    Avon, CT
    SM7609, can you please post a link to your book that you're referring to? I think I might have bought 3 volumes of them previously. Thanks!
     
  17. Tristero

    Tristero Touching from a distance

    Location:
    MI
    Wow, this post is blowing my mind--thanks for stirring it up, Scope! I'd heard vague rumblings about this project before, but I had no idea how much of it was out there in one form or another. I need to knuckle down and do my homework on this stuff. I think this weekend is going to be one extended Zappafest.

    Now playing: the Artisan Acetate
     
  18. citizensmurf

    citizensmurf Ain't but the one way.

    Impressive research. Without cross-referencing everything, seems like the only real unreleased stuff (other than extended edits and rough mixes) is from the Weasel era Mothers. I suppose if they were to do a Project/Object release for that album, there might be some worthwhile live tracks to be included, as YCDTOSA 5 had excerpts from many different shows. I think the MOFO box was the last word from the early years, they've pretty much mined everything on numerous releases (Joe's Xmasage was a pretty dismal collection, and if that was worth releasing, then I can't see anything else good being held back).

    I've never been a huge fan of alternate mixes (the 'master' takes from MOFO weren't that interesting), but I'm all for live tracks. Ahead of Their Time is a great album, especially if you've seen the Uncle Meat movie (most of the 'play' is included). I'm sure there are a few completed, unreleased studio cuts from the original Mothers era, since I believe a chunk of UM, Ruben, Money and LG (piano people parts) were recorded at Apostolic Studios from 67-68.

    I would love to hear some 'complete' live shows from the Original Mothers era. The Whiskey 68 show is probably the best to select, and there should be a decent 69 show to put out as well.

    The problem with trying to compile these miscellaneous tracks into an era compilation, is Frank's (good) habit of taking the actual master tape and splicing it into a new build reel. This would make finding the missing bits of certain shows hard, if they were pillaged and never released.

    Probably won't see anything new until at least well into next year, after the current reissue campaign is done and sales have generated some production capital.
     
  19. jacksondownunda

    jacksondownunda Forum Resident

    Terrific list. This mystery set had a lot of people guessing over the years, but I can only guess that usable stuff was absorbed into Burnt Weenie Sandwich and others, and I also only guess the big 9-disc set (lt alone the original 12?) may have therefore never been finished in one place.

    If it's of any help to the historians, the 'Columbia test pressing' was found by it's lonesome by a professional office painter who pilfered it from an LA office; and he was clearly not aware of nor see 8 more volumes, or we'd most probably have heard all those too. (Suffice to say, it wasn't me, nor did I ever meet him. I did see and hear the disc one night.) I believe some websites have suggested that the 'Hey Nelda' last track on the boot came from elsewhere, but it was definitely the closer on that same Columbia test disc. There's also been the suggestion that the "We are the Mothers" banter intro on the bootleg came from a radio broadcast (KPFK), but that's backwards; that was how FZ edited the test disc (meaning the 9 disc set would not necessarily run chronologically!; also means this disc 1 is a nice standalone sampler of MOI music broken down into it's 'component parts'.), and some station later played the boot on air, hence the fanciful misconception that some disgruntled ex-Mothers introduced and 'liberated' the music on air (quality is therefore worse on tapes from the broadcast). Further, no disgruntled unpaid Mothers sold the tapes for an exhorbitant sum of money (as reliably claimed by an 'insider' on The Patio). Again, it was the painter who passed it to a FZ fan, and a cheap cassette dub was traded to a mail-order bootleg operation that ran out of Charlotte NC in the mid-70's, which they passed onto guys who liked to make records.
     
  20. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What box is that MB 1,2, or 3 ?
     
  21. carledwards

    carledwards Forum Resident

    The box I have is from the late seventies/early eighties entitled "The History And Collected Improvisation of FRANK ZAPPA AND THE MOTHERS OF INVENTION. A TEN RECORD SET. Stereo ZX-3651-3660 A. It has a 36 page book inside with many newspaper clippings, etc. Vinyl records pressed with different colored labels and a complete listing on the back of the box of what's there. Mostly good sounding stuff and, I would imagine, rare as hell these days to find.
     
    alexpop likes this.
  22. Chip TRG

    Chip TRG Senior Member

    Pics, please? PLEASE!!!! :drool:
     
  23. carledwards

    carledwards Forum Resident

    kendo likes this.
  24. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What did Zappa think of The Beatles label Zapple?
     
  25. kendo

    kendo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oot Beh,Scotland
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