Fred Seaman "The Last Days of John Lennon"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by boogieman, Jun 24, 2011.

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  1. boogieman

    boogieman Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Has anyone read this book ? Why there is no mention of Ringo and Barbara coming to the Dakota in 1980, or no mention of Paul calling John on the telephone. When according to Paul, they had good conversations on the telephone.
     
  2. erocky

    erocky Forum Resident

    I remember that this book was impossible to put down. This book though is just one perspective. Perhaps Fred was not around for when Ringo came to visit and chose not to include Paul's conversations with John because they didn't fit the story line of or the book's agenda. Lennon was a mess in the late 70's, not doubt about it. I am not sure though that everything in this book is the truth.
     
  3. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow
    That's the first time I hear about John being a mess in the LATE 70's, not the mid 70's. I thought he got his act together when he reunited with Yoko in 75? Btw, are there any good books about the Lost Weekend?
     
  4. celticbob

    celticbob Forum Resident

    I read this many years ago and recall that it was an interesting read.
     
  5. erocky

    erocky Forum Resident

    Think about it. A guy with that kind of talent doesn't release a note of music in 5 years. What was he doing? Drugs and lots of them. Also super depressed because he wasn't working. A terrible cycle. I never ever bought the whole taking time off to raise my kid thing.
     
  6. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow
    You are being ironic, right? Simply enjoying the happiness with his wife and kid sounds way too simlistic???
     
    john lennonist likes this.
  7. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Seaman admitted afterward that he'd fabricated some of his anecdotes. I wouldn't trust anything in there unless it's corroborated by other sources.
     
    john lennonist likes this.
  8. bubba-ho-tep

    bubba-ho-tep Resident Ne'er-Do-Well

    Location:
    Wylie, TX
    An almost perfect parallel with Miles Davis during this period.

    Sorry, but the major change in John's appearance between '75 and '80 (he looked closer to 50 than 40 when he died imho) can't be chalked up to a "macrobiotic diet" or whatever he was claiming at the time. I really believe he was going through some serious s*** and that the whole "house husband" story was just one more chapter in the mythic Ballad of John and Yoko.
     
  9. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    There's been much discussion on other threads about Lennon's gaunt appearance in 1980. You've gotta admit, he looked unusually pale and underweight compared to just a few years earlier. It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility that there were a lot of drugs being consumed in his final years. Not sure that anyone can or will ever be able to prove that, but it would explain a lot.
     
  10. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Just Decomposing

    Bit's 'o' Beethoven were disinterred in part to look for traces of Laudanum, which were not found, strangely enough. Doubtless some similar investigation on John Lennon will happen two hundred years from now.
     
  11. bubba-ho-tep

    bubba-ho-tep Resident Ne'er-Do-Well

    Location:
    Wylie, TX
    I think he was cremated.
     
  12. kazzard

    kazzard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Somerset, England
    I always thought the house husband/baking bread idyll was more of a PR line - not saying that he didn't play house and bake some loaves, only not constantly.

    I do recall reading somewhere and I can't for the life of me remember the book, don't know if it was this one, but it mentioned how ravaged (due to neglect/ill advised fasting/whatever) his body was when examined after his death. Ravaged's not the right word but in poor condition.
     
  13. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    If you're wondering how much credibility to give Seaman's stories, here he is insinuating that Yoko conspired with Mark David Chapman to have John murdered:

    (Even the non-obvious bits are false here, by the way; the stuff about Yoko being inside the building is contradicted by contemporary press reports.)

    And here's an official statement from Seaman some time later in court:

     
  14. Robin L

    Robin L Musical Omnivore

    Location:
    Fresno, California
    Toss 'em in the ocean while we're at it

    Plausible deniability—that's the ticket!
     
  15. groff

    groff Forum Resident

    I remember reading the same thing - that the medical personnel who worked on him were shocked at his poor physical condition. Don't remember where I read it, but he definitely did look unhealthy and older than his years in the last pictures taken of him.

    I think the truth about his last years probably lies somewhere between the worst and the rosiest accounts available.
     
  16. MikeP5877

    MikeP5877 Uh Huh

    Location:
    OH
    A 40 year-old rock star in poor condition. Shocking!
     
  17. Immerse

    Immerse New Member

    Location:
    Sussex, England
    Firstly, I've not yet read Fred Seamans book, but I really want to. I feel he is an unfairly maligned figure in Lennon history. Even Jack Douglas came out and said he doesn't deserve the bad rep. he's got. John loved Fred.

    With the comment above, and Johns worrying image?

    Have to say I agree. This is a fascinating mystery to me (and the 1980 material is my favourite of Johns). What's odd though is, despite his unhealthy appearance during 76-80, in his last interviews he came across as an incredibly positive, 'with it', sharp and intelligent guy. If he was really going through some drug issues you wonder if he could pull himself together like that. Also, he was on an incredible run of musical form imo, his best yet. Even if a few of the Double Fantasy songs were written a few years prior, he was still working on a lot of other great material and was already carrying one full blown potential classic in his pocket ('Grow Old With Me').

    So if not drugs, I guess that leaves the other theory, that maybe he had an eating disorder?

    Some unhealthy looking pics:

    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

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    [​IMG]

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/10202505@N05/3190256830/

    Startling when you compare these to just 9 years earlier (Imagine era):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    By means of comparison, Paul in 1980:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Immerse

    Immerse New Member

    Location:
    Sussex, England
    I've noticed you immediately jumping in on Fred Seaman related threads before, you can't wait to throw this stuff around. Do you have personal beef with the guy or something? I mean you seem so vested in him.

    BTW, to counter what you're saying, here's a quote from Jack Douglas interview in 1999 who says Fred's been given a very unfair rap:

    Q: What did you think of Seaman, by the way? He's now like this vilified character.

    JACK DOUGLAS: Fred, was like, you know, he just got hammered, man, I mean, there was no - John loved him and he was hired to be John's assistant. I mean, wherever John went, he brought Fred, you know? And, I mean, Fred, he probably made a couple of mistakes. But what he got nailed for was like really off the wall. John - and I was there - John used to get things sent to him, not just one thing, he'd get a boom box, or a cassette machine, they'd send him two, three of them, or they'd just send him one - he just didn't want all the stuff that he used to get from companies. Everybody would just want him to say "I use this,' you know. And he was getting complimentary stuff all the time and he told Fred one day, 'Take that," he says, "Go in the room, Fred, and take whatever you want, man, you can have it." And Fred went in and he took stuff and he brought it home and it was practical stuff he could use but Yoko had somebody always keeping an inventory of everything that was in that room and so, I mean, you know, Fred never, like, signed this stuff out. John told him, 'Keep it Take it, I don't want that crap' and when Fred finally got nailed it was because they said, well, you know, there's this stuff missing and you might find it at Fred Seaman's house. And once they went there, they matched the serial numbers, it was like a grand larceny rap. And so, that's what he got taken down on and it was really like, you know, he was there to keep a journal for John ... and whatever John ever asked him to do, Fred was like right there. It was a bum rap.


    Full interview here:
    http://heydullblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/jack-douglas-in-beatlefan-1999.html
     
  19. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    I've noticed you posting in Seaman-related threads too. What of it?

    Seaman pleaded guilty to larceny. And again, from his 2002 apology that I've already quoted: "I did in fact steal items from you that once belonged to you and John. These items include diaries, documents and more."

    Seaman's thefts were hardly limited to a few boom boxes. The biggest consideration in his larceny conviction, of course, was his theft of Lennon's diaries. His public apology came to settle a case where he was being sued for selling stolen letters, art, and manuscripts for more than $80,000.
     
  20. Immerse

    Immerse New Member

    Location:
    Sussex, England
    I said what of it in the part of my post you didn't quote. I asked if you had any personal beef with the guy. I mean you just seem so angry and involved with him. Even your response to me is angry. You seem determined to sabotage any thread related to him with this stuff.

    (shrug) not looking for an argument. We don't know all the facts, yes he pleaded guilty, but who knows the full legal details of the case, maybe it was easier to just plead guilty then have an extended court battle he may or may not win.
     
    stevenson66g likes this.
  21. numer9

    numer9 Beatles Apologist

    Location:
    Philly Burbs
    Anyone that delt with Seaman back in the good old days of rec.music.beatles knows the book is mostly crap.
     
  22. Matthew B.

    Matthew B. Scream Quietly

    Location:
    Tokyo, Japan
    Good lord. We're talking here about a thief and a liar — a self-confessed thief and liar — who accused Yoko of murdering John. And yet there are always people here willing to claim that he's been "unfairly maligned," and that those who say otherwise must have some sort of ulterior motive. It's absolutely insane.
     
    Lost In The Flood likes this.
  23. Immerse

    Immerse New Member

    Location:
    Sussex, England
    One of those people being Jack Douglas.

    A man who was more on the inside with John and Fred then you, me or anyone else here. Are you accusing him of being a liar? It's not as cut and dry as you paint it.
     
  24. erocky

    erocky Forum Resident

    Huh? Are you telling me that believe that whole house husband story? Seriously, you believe that? I love John Lennon. He is my favorite songwriter of all time period. His music is part of my DNA. Lennon loved to spin the media. I have read my share of books on the man and I always felt like the late 70's were not a good time for him.
     
  25. tagomago

    tagomago Original Wrapper

    He surely wanted the 80ies to be more positive (to him) than the 70ies
     
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