Furutech NCF Clear Line AC Conditioner Owners: Your Results

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jim0830, Jan 6, 2022.

  1. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Just from your signature it is quite evident you are an audiophile skeptic which is your right to be. Like our other troll in looking at your profile: if that is your real system it makes me a bit skeptical about your motives. You seem to have an attitude from the start. There is nothing wrong with your system, but you feel free to diss members and NCF owners here that have systems far better that yours (or mine). Are you one of the people who for whatever reasons knock others who choose to, or can afford to have a high end system. I know many people that tell themselves what they have is good enough. They feel you can’t really hear significant differences if you spend more money on your system.

    There are many people in this hobby that have more money than knowledge about the science of HiFi. That’s what this board is about: people knowledgeable in this hobby exchanging ideas and discoveries. There is indeed some snake oil in this area, just like any other hobby. I feel there is a difference when it comes to the credibility of this product. The thread about the Furutech was started by @Sam who had a surprisingly good experience with this product. He was genuinely interested in seeing what other members experiences were WITH THE PRODUCT. @Sam has been a member for years, he didn’t just show up to shill this product. Many who have tried it were skeptical it would even work, but were pleasantly surprised when it did. This product has not been scientifically tested, and due to the relatively low price and ease of return it makes sense the manufacturer feels it will sell itself. Yet there are people who will not even try it and find out for themselves. They demand tests, but they are unwilling to make a simple test themselves.

    It is ok to be skeptical. But our 2 true skeptics are telling people they can’t hear what they very clearly describe hearing. This despite the fact many of the buyers appear to be knowledgeable on the subject, have high end systems, have bought the device and despite their own initial skepticism ACTUALLY HEARD positive results. The difference is often not subtle and the satisfied owners do not require A-B detailed tests for further proof. This is not like some $XX,YYY device sold by a company no one has heard of where when you want to get your money back they have closed shop. In light of the lack of any tests, this is the only test evidence we have: Our 2 ears. The results of the poll stand at 21-3-1 positive. Funny but it is several skeptics who have never bought it, or heard it, who are telling owners they CAN’T HEAR IT. Either that or stating that we are like simple fools with more money than sense. There is real arrogance at work with our, now 2 trolls. I don’t recall a single incidence of someone who has had good results themselves insulting a person who tried the product and heard no difference (3 people) or a negative difference (1 person). They post their negative results and other owners accept it and move on. There are a wide range of variables at play here and I could see why some people can’t hear a difference.

    Bottom line: I spent $250 on a device my ears tell me has a positive effect on my system, If it didn’t, I would return it. The true skeptics who aren’t willing to try an easy test for themselves, get out of it what they put into it: A big zero.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2022
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  2. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    well said and i just added a second one to the ignore list haha!
     
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  3. motorstereo

    motorstereo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ct.
    My second one arrived yesterday and both units are on the dedicated amp circuits now. More serious listening evaluation needs to be done as honestly I wasn't exactly thrilled with their newest placement. But this was a very quick listen and more about getting it energized and allowing it to settle in. The 2nd one will be staying here although it may not be used on my main rig. I'm thinking if it doesn't work out where it is now I'll use it on my tv's circuit where hopefully I'll be able to see the difference during the playoffs. Presently I have no plans for a 3rd unit.
     
    jonwoody likes this.
  4. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Sometimes less is more, it can be like connecting a power conditioner into a power conditioner. You would think, two should be double the goodness but many people end up disliking the results.
     
  5. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Be careful there ;) ! It sounds like you could be telling people they shouldn’t use the unit and by taking it out their system will be even better. Just to be perfectly clear, that was 101% sarcasm
     
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  6. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Aha, you've fallen for my ruse, putting my "computer speakers" receiver in my profile - a choice that doesn't define my whole identity.

    I pop the top of my $250 receiver (ok, $500 today). Marvel at the 5lb transformer, power supplies, DACs, DSP, phono preamp, display, volume controls, digital input selection etc on multiple circuit boards, along with a hefty power amp circuit.

    But then must think to myself "surely they must not have accounted for this being plugged into wall power. If only there was $250 more circuitry that would fit on a one-inch board in a power dongle that would add what's missing"...?

    It is only my poor-resolving system that needs the Furutech device, along with some of their rhodium-plated power outlets; surely audiophile gear would not have overlooked the design of clean power conversion.
     
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  7. Hanks3

    Hanks3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Tx

    Inflation has hit pretty much all of audio with pricing going up by 10-15% since the beginning of the year by the well known brands. Several local dealers were letting people know in early December.
     
  8. Hanks3

    Hanks3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Tx

    Your approach is off base. Nobody has ever suggested you "need" any device. Whatever you want to do with your system is completely up to you, just like it is for everyone else. But somehow you did "need" to troll a thread that you really have no pertinent information to add to the discussion offered hy the OP.

    There is no need to harangue people for making there own choices on their own stuff. It's tiresome and a waste.
     
    Art K, bajaed, Jim0830 and 1 other person like this.
  9. ellingtonic

    ellingtonic Forum Resident

    This is like the guy with a Pinto trolling people with Porsches.

    I'm learning that while I mostly like what the Clear Line does I don't like it with every album. Sometimes there is a little too much pixie dust. The results are going to be somewhat system and material dependent, but it is doing something palpable.
     
  10. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    The opposite: You guys need to stop taking the bait. If you really were so confident in the benefits of this device, you wouldn't take it so personally every time someone expresses the least bit of skepticism about it. The fact that this group regularly snoops in people's equipment profiles and tries to "out" skeptics as allegedly not having enough audiophile cred based on it, reveals the insecurity they have about the efficacy of this device. I've never looked at the equipment profile of anyone else on this forum, because I know that assumptions made based on it are never going to help win an argument -- especially when that argument wasn't worth having in the first place.
     
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  11. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I questioned whether that was your main system. If it was you your main system, I’m afraid you were far more obnoxiously snarky in your attitude than that system allows you to be. I think your choice of system does define your identity. You seem to resent people who have made decisions that differ with yours and what they paid for those choices. As @Hanks3 so eloquently put it:
    Ignore is a beautiful thing. At a count of 24-3-1 owners having good experiences with the NCF, it is not like I am ignoring the actual reported reality of most users experiences so far. I am simply ignoring a second person who wants tests and is ignoring the only tests results we do have. Don’t bother with another snarky reply giving your absolute truth about the world as YOU see it. I’m not playing your game any more. I have all the real world proof I need. Thanks but I don’t need you telling me what I hear.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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  12. Hanks3

    Hanks3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Austin, Tx
    Oh yes, another derail. I have been participating on audio board on and off for close to 30 years. The shtick has never changed from the skeptic side. I'm not talking about skepticism itself, but the personality trait that compels them to interject their opinion, often times unsolicited, in a prolonged combative manner that isn't constructive to anyone. That is the issue I have, not confidence in my experiences. This is a hobby. People do it all kinds of ways. They are never going to hear their system, nor are they going to ask you to finance it; so what do they care??? I find them to be sources of misinformation.


    As to people calling out others' systems, I don't find that to be helpful or particularly respectful. We all started somewhere and it most likely wasn't anywhere near where we are today.

    With that said, in regards to a good many of the additions that can enhance one's sonic experience, they are more discernable the more resolving the system is, and that starts with the speakers, AND space limitations.
     
  13. ubiknik

    ubiknik Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL USA
    Not feelin' the vibe, eh?
     
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  14. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

    Oh boy. I spoke too soon about trolls.
     
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  15. MarkD51

    MarkD51 Audio Maniac

    Location:
    Chicago Illinois
    I'll say this if it offers any value-worth. I'm sure others like myself have heard more than one sob story about a person buying a quite expensive power conditioner, and they then found that it sucked the life out of their system.

    I sure wouldn't be feeling too good after a $3000-$4000 expenditure, unless I had the option of return with full refund.

    I only ever in my life had issues with such products once, and it wasn't the product's fault, but was my ignorance.

    In my SKF 4 Space Bass Amp Rack, I thought I was smart plugging my Eden World Tour 800W Bass Head into a $79 1 Space Furman Power Conditioner in that Rack, and then the Conditioner into the Outlet. It worked, but something sure wasn't sounding right! It was like I just lost 400 watts worth of Amp.
     
  16. Talking about skepticism: I bet most of the 22 who voted postive were skeptic this device would work before they plugged it in.
     
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  17. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Note that there's no poll option given for "I can detect a wall of complete metaphysical nonsense prose on a marketing site as a sure sign of a snow job, and won't be buying."

    The poll already had its mind made up.

    Be wary of those that cannot tolerate a warning of the one-sidedness of this poll and the opinions seen within, and must shout "troll" as loud as they can.
     
    vwestlife likes this.
  18. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I feel your pain, I have been participating on A or A/V boards off and on for 40 years. I agree it is ok to be skeptical or hold any opinion you want. When I left college my system was good enough for the average person-a bit better than average even. I felt I wouldn’t get really audible improvements without spending significant quantities of money. I used to look at people spending 10X or 100X what what I did. While I didn’t think it was all snake oil, I did not think you could hear anywhere near 10X or 100X improvement. The law of diminishing returns set in big time.

    I used to be skeptical of real high end audio magazines. I remember reading a speaker review in either Stereophile or TAS for an $8,000 speaker. It was available in available in 6 or 8 wood veneers. The reviewer felt the versions clad with a rare South American tropical wood veneer that cost nearly $1,000 extra, sounded far better. It seems that veneer offered all these addition improvements to the sound of the base model speaker with normal wood veneer. I’m sorry, but it is the same wood carcass under the 1/32” thick wood veneer-color me skeptical. I lost some of my skepticism when I read about double and triple Larger Advents in the same mags. The reviews sounded too good to be true, but hearing is believing and the reviews matched what I heard with my own two ears. As a result, I lost a some of my skepticism at this point. As my hearing acuity improved I heard more and more of these finer nuances people spoke of. I didn’t necessarily desire to buy the product in question. I certainly did hear some of what they were describing. If they had the money great!

    But there is a certain group of people who are absolutely sure they are right on everything. The gear they own is THE BEST, nothing else competes-end of discussion. The amount they spent on their systems is all anyone needs to spend to get the best sound they will hear. Any more and the people are silly for THINKING they can hear more by putting more money into it. These people have opinions cast in stone. It is an absolute certainty there is no room for discussion. These people think nothing about offering their opinions in a snarky, condescending, non-constructive manner and non-stop manner. They are like a dog with a bone and will not agree to disagree or that the subject is open for further discussion. I have opinions. I will express my opinion as my one person’s opinion, not an absolute. I do not set out to insult anyone or say they’re an idiot or gullible. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Everyone is entitled to spend their money as they see fit. This is a discussion board for discussing discoveries and OPINIONS on A/V topics. It is not a lecture, or training seminar.

    I totally agree. I made the exception in this case due to the high snark level from a poster listing low priced components from car audio systems and computer based systems. The system listed hardly qualifies as particularly high end system and this discussion was between users of a different caliber of gear. The arrogance expressed by this person in his posts, together with his forum signature mocking “all the audiophiles” lead me to be suspicious of the system listed in the profile. What kind of person lists the wrong components to troll people? You will notice his glee thinking he pulled one over on people with his “system”. People enjoying music on their systems, regardless of the cost, is what this hobby is all about. Not listing fake equipment to insert yourself into discussions and insult people with different opinions that his. This is a hobby, it is supposed to be fun. Trolls seem to exist to take the fun out of things purely for their own pleasure.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2022
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  19. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yes it did. It was asking the opinions of people who bought the device and actually used it. NCF Clear Line users. In light of no other tests for us to evaluate real users are the only people whose opinions on the sound count. Thanks for reminding me to hit ignore, which I forget to use earlier today.
     
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  20. shawnie

    shawnie Active Member

    Location:
    Singapore
    I am new to the forum and i stumbled upon this while searching on the clearline filter and i saw really interesting discussion hence, i decided to part-take and share my experience.

    I am skeptical of these products and to be honest, a small dongle vs large transformer power conditioners, this has to be an outright 100% snake oil. So, i happened to be a my buddy place the other day and i saw had 2 of these plugin on his wall and deliciated line for his setup. so i asked him out of curiosity if i could removed it. . HOLY ****, the noise floor increased and digital glare(we were streaming from his melco NAS) is presented, its really night and day difference easily 20% i did say. He said the dealer has said honesty for it to work better its accumulative so min. 2-3sets which is true. i plug in 1 by 1 and i could hear the difference. so moving forward i am convinced.

    I got 2 pcs lo and behold, i was getting similar positive effects on my system where the vocals sounded so realistic, the tone and strikes of the piano clean, PRAT was also there. . If you need to know i am using a sperate power conditioner (Elite BAC 1500 – Plixir Power ) one for analog and another for digital. i plug them directly into my empty slots 1 at analog and 1 digital conditioner. i didn't like it as much as i put 2 NCF clear line in my analog Conditioner. so you can play around till you find your own sweet spot of sound.

    So the thing is that you will think, your system has low noise in it and everything is good, but you ain't know it till you plug these in. i personally find vocals more intimate and life like and it does reduce digital glare. i am planning ti get a 3rd pcs for my wall outlet on my delicated line so it cleans off before going into my conditioner.

    My local furutech dealer is a honest chap. he admits that often only when you truly listen and test for yourself then you can appreciate it. and its important also the foundations and your system needs to be of a certain level of revealing and transparency for you to feel the difference. if you can;t hear the difference. don't bother. i hope my 2 cents help.

    i will be getting a 3rd pc this week. but likely will stop there :D
     
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  21. Jim0830

    Jim0830 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    That is the thing I don't get about some of the naysayers that insist, with no audible proof of their own, that this device just can't possibly work: For many of us the differences are not subtle. Sure I have seen people in hi-fi stores get "shamed" into hearing some subtle and amazing thing the sales person insists they should clearly hear. While some people said they heard the magic to keep up appearances, I either heard it or I did't. I said so and I never apologized for it. If I didn't hear it it either didn't really exist or my hearing wasn't sophisticated enough to hear "the magic". Either way, no need to spend the money for something I couldn't hear. End of discussion.

    For many people the Furotech NCF Clear Line made a very noticeable difference. I know I felt no need to A-B it upon first hearing it. There was a big difference. I later did A-B it because the OP of the original Furutech thread specifically asked me if I had done this. But it is so easy to hear for yourself if it works on your system or not. Just try it. If it doesn't work you get your money back and you are secure in the knowledge on your current system, to your ears, it didn't work.

    I hope some of the new users have recorded their results, positive or negative, in the poll here in this thread.
     
  22. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    But the yaysayers have never provided any audible proof, either.

    If the difference really is as "jaw-dropping" and "night and day" as is claimed, you'd think someone would at least try to record it and measure it.
     
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  23. shawnie

    shawnie Active Member

    Location:
    Singapore
    Let's be fair, too much of everything isn't good. Same for the furutech clear line. Too much you might start to feel your music dead. For my case, the bass can get Too overwhelming could be Because everything is quieter. But this is no miracle pill you still need a decent power conditioner proper power cables.

    i really felt thou the biggest jump for me was a dedicated line and splitting my analog and digital into 2 conditioner.

    Hifi is fun and relaxing let's not turn it into a science project. Some geeky fun is nice but once you get too serious, it spoils all the fun :)
     
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  24. motorstereo

    motorstereo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ct.
    Ya but ya but.......where's your measurments:). Surely you can and should measure that improvement or it didn't happen:agree:
    Just kiddin as I also experienced a nice upgrade with dedicated lines to.
     
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  25. LivLif

    LivLif Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Are you all plugging the NCF into the outlet that feeds the power conditioner or into an empty outlet on the power conditioner?
     

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