Furutech NCF Clear Line AC conditioner

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Sam, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. Vignus

    Vignus Digital Vinylist

    Location:
    Italy
    This thread is so very interesting to me, as it seems to mirror the two faces, the two opposite attitudes of us audiophiles: theory vs experience.
    Measurements vs listening. I bought the ClearLine because of the comments of those who actually heard it. I feel the rest is pretty academical.
    Not much added value for me.
    The improvements can't be measured so are not real? If I hear them I'm biased?
    How much can you measure a song, or how elegant a speaker looks?
    You just listen to the song, if it moves you you're good.
    Same, for me, for the Furutech. It made my system a better system, for just 200 something dollars.
    That's really all I need to know. I'll measure another time.
     
    DaveyF, Audiofan1, oboogie and 8 others like this.
  2. Linger63

    Linger63 Forum Resident

    Location:
    AUSTRALIA
    Why?
    You got what you wanted and don't have to justify it.
    Enjoy.:):righton::wave:
     
  3. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I received it this pm, so it's not had it's 24 hour 'burn' in and it already seems a obvious improvement. However rather than just play music, I will do a shoot out next Monday.

    I always approach this, in what seems like a different way, as my experience, with improved isolation has been many of those CDs Ive written off as 'unlistenable' can turn out to sound great or a least no 'screeching' pain.

    Is it 'night and day', perhaps not but I've been able to listen to Ju Ju's Nightwalk, for the first time since I bought it at Cambridge Folk festival after seeing them live in 2012.

    I found that the soundstage was massively improved by isolation and it's effect on this front is small.

    It doesn't smooth the sound as it leaves the dynamics of all instrument intact, on those good recordings.

    More thought to come next week.
     
  4. Audiofan1

    Audiofan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    States
    Those on the fence on the Furutech NFC outlet don't hesitate! It will require some considerable burn in but once done the sheer transparency and dynamics (not talking harsh here by a long shoot) are what make it the best outlet on the market. I've largely decided perhaps next month to get a second Clear line as I just have to find out what two brings to the table.
     
    jonwoody and motorstereo like this.
  5. MarkD51

    MarkD51 Audio Maniac

    Location:
    Chicago Illinois
    So let me get this straight. For those who have supposedly checked their AC with a line sniffer before-after, yet it makes no difference, your system sounds better with no actual evidence-proof the product changes anything?
     
    vwestlife and CoryG85 like this.
  6. motorstereo

    motorstereo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ct.
    ^^^^^There's no need to rehash as I've already answered that question and gave my listening impressions on page 4.
     
  7. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I can't see how this is relevant, when you consider how you chose your system, as when I used to dem equipment no one ever asked me for 'proof'.
     
  8. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Isn't it fascinating? While you would think that if something can't be measured, there can be NO audible change, and then BAM! Your lying ears are telling you the opposite of what your measuring device is saying. I like to use the analogy of a cave man and a burning fire in front of him. Back then, no one could actually "measure" the temperature of the fire. Therefore, since it couldn't be measured, logic indicated that it was NOT hot. Until he put his hand into it. Now his senses told him something completely different. LOL.
     
  9. RockAddict

    RockAddict Taking a break

    Location:
    UK
    Beautifully put @Sam :).
     
    oboogie likes this.
  10. MarkD51

    MarkD51 Audio Maniac

    Location:
    Chicago Illinois
    A Line Sniffer would have at least been one simple layman's tool for measuring noise. Otherwise, what proof does the manufacturer provide as some evidence that such a device does anything?

    Mine was a simple enough question, isn't it?
     
    vwestlife likes this.
  11. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I can only refer you to their explanation from their website as to "how" the NCF works.

    Technology | FURUTECH
     
  12. RockAddict

    RockAddict Taking a break

    Location:
    UK
    Mark, this is rapidly descending into the same territory as cable debates; those who (genuinely) hear differences and those that don't / can't, irrespective of "measurements" and "proof". Of course there are those who "believe" they hear differences and those who "don't believe" but I'm sure we can agree that "belief", one way or another, does not a fact maketh.

    "Proof" is an interesting choice of vocabulary because it doesn't necessarily have the same meaning as "evidence". On the issue of the Furutech NCF line conditioner, part of the "evidence" is the first hand experience of those who have heard a difference when comparing in-use vs not-in-use as well as the first hand experience of those who have not heard a difference.

    Why dispute either set of experiences? There are too many posters on the SH Forums and elsewhere on the web who have given information about their experiences of the Furutech device to doubt EITHER side of the debate. Just like hi-fi components and cables, some listeners experience (real) differences; others don't and, often, there is no "measurement" to support (or dispute) the stated views.

    I have the Furutech device but, so far, haven't undertaken an A/B test (ears) to determine whether I hear a difference in my own setup so, at this point in time, I can't say. The A/B will happen as and when I get the urge.

    Now, all that said, you might think I was simply taking a "pro" device line for the sake of it. Not at all. In my previous setup (NAD C 658 pre/DAC/streamer + PS Audio Stellar S300 power amp), I tried a Tube Distinctions Mains Power Filter (optimised by Mark Grant Cables) which, to my ears, made absolutely zero difference to the audio character. Yet, I don't doubt those who say it has made a real world difference to them (based on listening).

    On the vexed subject of cables (and valves/tubes?), in my systems, I can categorically say SOME changes over the years (not all) have resulted in a real difference to audio character, some pronounced, some not so much, a few not at all. I note your profile indicates Kimber 12TC speaker cable which is far from cheap. We both know there are those who will argue it's impossible for cable to be any "better" at that price than Mogami / Blue Jeans / Van Damme and many other even cheaper options. Yet, presumably, your experience is that the Kimber cables work for you, in your setup. I've not tried Kimber so can't comment on first hand experience and I'm certainly not going to demand "measurements" of audio character differences as a justification. BTW, if circumstances ever allow me the opportunity to try more expensive cables (Kimber, Cardas, Tellurium Q, Wireworld etc), I probably won't be able to resist experimenting - just to find out. As an aside, I currently use Van Damme 4mm. I did once try AudioQuest Rocket 33 and.... hated the audio that came out of the system. Minutes later, I tried Rega Quattro (single run). Dare I say... "night and day" difference (to me!) but still preferred Van Damme...

    As and when I do my own A/B listening test with the Furutech NCF conditioner, I'll post the observations. If it makes a difference (in my setup), that's what I'll post. If it doesn't, that's what I'll post. I won't be taking "scientific measurements". "Art" is sometimes a truer reflection of reality than "science" - ask (almost) any lawyer with a few years under their belt :).

    Whatever your own setup (and views) Mark, I sincerely wish you the best of happy listening.

    NB: written before seeing the most recent post by @Sam
     
    jonwoody likes this.
  13. vwestlife

    vwestlife Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    If the manufacturer truly has discovered "a new crystallized material that actively generates negative ions to eliminate static and converts thermal energy into far infrared", as they claim, why are they wasting it on a tiny niche of audiophiles? There are all sorts of applications such an invention could be put to use in, such as medical treatment, renewable energy, HVAC systems, etc. They need to get it in peer reviewed science journals, as they could be standing on a revolutionary invention!

    But I have to give them credit for posting hi-res audio samples comparing a generic power cord with their magic crystal power cord. When I get a chance, I'll run a DeltaWave comparison on them.

    DeltaWave Audio Null Comparator | DeltaWave documentation
     
  14. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I'd promised to do my shootout today but.....

    I got up late and I've been listened to music, since it's arrival I've listened to a wide range of music and thinking everything sounds better to varying degrees. I've also decided how I'll choose which albums to compare, so I've been very busy:laugh:

    Shootout tomorrow were I may need to confess it's a waste of money and it's going back.
     
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  15. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I've compared a few tracks, from various albums/genres and I'm happy to report there's no difference, so I can get my £230 back.

    However I have another 23 days before it needs to be returned and as others have said it improves, I'll give it more 'burn in' time, and try again.

    Now who's going to get a better Xmas present.:laugh:
     
    inzite likes this.
  16. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I believe your comments say it all. "Happy to report." Why would it make you happy to report no difference? That tells me that your mindset was set on "proving " that no benefit could be possible. Give an honest appraisal after it burns in for a few days.
     
    motorstereo, Soundgarden and DaveyF like this.
  17. DaveyF

    DaveyF Forum Resident

    Location:
    La Jolla, Calif
    I think that listening to this device in one's own system is the best and maybe only way to really see if it has benefits in your system. So, regardless of the positives and negatives posted here, all of which are probably 100% correct for the particular member, the only true opinion of worth is the end user, who has inserted it into his or her system and decides for themselves based on their own individual results.
     
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  18. inzite

    inzite Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    always good when money can be spent on things that returns benefits!
     
    Pastafarian likes this.
  19. Ingenieur

    Ingenieur Forum Resident

    Location:
    Gone
    :shake:

    as was mentioned, this would be so easy to measure, not SQ, but if anything changed regarding PQ.

    If happy, enjoy
     
  20. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Did you measure? Please post your results.
     
  21. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I see this forum as a place to share knowledge and experience, which may benefit others, hence the reason I was 'happy', although I'm also greatly disappointed it didn't bring about a improvement.

    Given your comment and the Xmas post it would be prudent to send it back now, so I'll ponder that one.
     
  22. motorstereo

    motorstereo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ct.
    Everyone's rig here is different and I would've been very surprised if everyone experienced an upgrade. In my case critical listening tells me the Furutech is working well mostly for soundstage expansion and instrument placement which is high if not tops on my list of favorite improvements. But there are areas that I've noticed little to no change such as vocals, bass output and emi reduction.

    I do appreciate other's sharing their experiences with it even if it doesn't match mine.
     
    DaveyF, inzite, Dave and 1 other person like this.
  23. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    I agree that you do need to see what it does for your system, I'm presuming a significant factor will be your mains supply.

    If anyone is intrigued and can get a 30 days return purchase, and if you can afford it, why not try it.
     
    Audiofan1 and motorstereo like this.
  24. Lowrider75

    Lowrider75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I'd like to jump in here to reiterate what others have said. These devices need break-in time. Although I don't own the Furutech, I have researched it and similar power conditioners.
    I own multiple High Fidelity power conditioner modules which take over 200 hours to break-in and then keep improving. I also own an iFi AC Purifier which when installed caused negative effects to the sound until about 60 hours continuous running. The results are very positive.
    My 2 cents.
     
    jonwoody and Pastafarian like this.
  25. Pastafarian

    Pastafarian Forum Resident

    Whilst accepting what you say could be true, £230 for myself wasn't really a 'sensible' outlay, so I've decided I'll return it on Saturday if it isn't doing it's thing by then.:shrug:
     

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