Exactly right ! This was not a thread where someone was making some claim about the tech in the NCF and how it works, they just opened it to report their subjective view. The measurement brigade were not asked to come in and offer a view, they just appear to have their fingers hovering ready to pounce on anything they don't understand or agree with. And not to help anyone or for any benign reason, but just to spar or posture as if they are superior. If they truly want a stimulating intellectual discussion of the possible tech and engineering behind these and other similar devices then open up a thread about it separate to this. This "prove it ! " attitude is pointless and ridiculous. Are we not allowed to enjoy a product unless we take a PhD in engineering so we can explain to everyone how it works?
I am not saying the discussion is not valid. But I am saying it is better suited to a seperate thread. That ship sailed along time ago, but it might have been more productive to have two threads. The people who heard positive results don't seem to want to hear non-stop lectures and speculations from people who for the most part haven't heard the product. I am not speaking for just myself . There are many people on this thread that share my opinion, they are not hard to find. I have heard privately from several of them. The people wanting to discuss the tech theory and why this product may work or not work seem to get equally upset with the people just wanting to speak of their results using the product. The feel compelled to tell them what they hear and be condescending. @Hanks3 & @Hawkmoon said it better in their two posts immediately above this one, than I could myself so I will stop here.
The one angle many of these numbers guys take that frustrates me is the positive expectation bias that they obsessively assume any of us must have if we hear a positive difference. I took an 8 week course in recording engineering (several decades ago and I've probably forgotten more than I remember) that included a lot of hands on experience in the studio. I managed an artist (nobody famous) and booked tours for them. I was interviewed in Radio and Records magazine about record promotion. I also promoted concerts. I've always had a great ear for mixes and was frequently asked to critique and adjust mixes in the studio and at concerts. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in the same universe as our host or many of the highly experienced members here. My point is that I've spent a bit of time analyzing and adjusting mixes in the studio and at live concerts and was pretty good at hearing subtle changes in the sound. I also have tried several products that made no, or a negative change in the sound of a system. When I heard an improvement from installing this device, it was not because of an expectation bias or inability to process what I was hearing.
What business model are you referring to? A business where anyone can claim anything and where critic are not welcome?
So we invoke religion again. 'Proof' of God? It's called Faith (not science) for a reason. This NCF topic is not the same...at all. No one is claiming to hear voices, only subtle changes in a dang hifi system. Lighten up
That's due to the nature of alternating current. Power is coming in and EXITING from your components 60 times a second. That is potentially a lot of noise that can be spread to other components. A good power cable won't be a conduit for noise, keeping the digital noise in the box, REGARDLESS of how good your power is. The noise is coming from INSIDE the house. Probably why the prior poster enjoyed the change a lower priced power cable brought.
yup And reactive power is much higher in frequency when induced by transient: music, motors switching, etc. 1000+ Hz
I do not understand why some won't leave the people who like it, alone. For God's sake, LEAVE THEM ALONE! Start another thread to debate the validity.
You've forgotten to mention the constant demand that you owe them proof. All folks are saying is this is what I heard, you might want to try one for yourself. It's a tip. Simple proof: buy the @#%^ thing. Owners owe you nothing.Plus you would no doubt incessantly challenge the test methods.
After months in my audio video system where I kind of liked the Clearline I put it back in my main system, trying it in three locations, and I've left it in the same outlet that my P15 is plugged into. I like it far more than I used to. I also like the system without it. I'm leaving it in now for a spell. The presentation is different--a bit more "anylitical" than without.
As of this week, I’ve implemented all the NCF tweaks I think I’m going to toss into my main system. Since my first ClearLine, I’ve added in pretty short order: - An additional ClearLine, both residing in my power conditioner - 2x Flux-50 NCF(G) filters, one to my integrated, the other to my turntable deck. - 2x NCF Boosters to prop up those ridiculous Flux -50 connectors. - 1x GTX-D (R) NCF outlet set To put it in perspective, the Clearline made enough of a difference in my rig for me to take a leap of faith and toss in the other goodies. No regrets. To differing degrees, each of these tweaks has, so far, made my music listening experience perceptibly nicer and gotten other sonic artifacts out of the way which I wasn’t aware were there prior to adding the next component and the next. My music listening experience is now near-holographic in nature, and I feel so much closer to what I’m hearing than I did a few weeks ago. What excites me even more is that it all stands to potentially get better with time. Do I have any regrets? Largely, no. Those NCF Boosters seem like stupid money for what they do, though. They look cool, and I might be able to start a conversation about them which involves the other person I’m talking to glazing over and looking stupefied when I explain what they’re for. Honestly, nobody in my life really cares about my stereo that much - I’m just glad those pieces are there for MY peace of mind, and to validate that I may be at a point of diminishing returns. I’m glad this thread was started. It continues to make an impactful contribution to my music listening, while also puzzling me to entertained degrees.
^^^^^^^^I'm glad to hear they've made a difference for you and also glad to know I'm not the only one here with Flux 50's anymore. In my case I was the opposite and "took a leap of faith" because of the difference the Flux 50's made which led me to the clearlines for yet another upgrade.
The Flux 50’s are amazing. I don’t know how the Gold version I have compares to the previous iterations, but what an upgrade these were!
I don't want to hijack or derail this thread with talk of another device. I just wanted to again thank @Sam , the OP, for starting this thread and suggesting we might want to try the NCF Clear Line. Based on my positive results and seeing I was not alone in my results, I was interested in trying the Furutech GTX-D (R) NCF outlet set mentioned by @biggysteve and several others here. It arrived Friday and was up and running yesterday (Saturday). I did hear differences, both positive and negative, with the positives outweighing the negatives 60/40. As far as expectation bias I have none. I hope it sounds better, but some users had good experiences and some really bad. Who knows, mine could be bad? I plan to give it the 500 hours users seem to recommend and see where things stand. That is all I plan to comment about GTX-D (R) NCF outlet set on this thread. I am very glad @Sam brought the Clear Line to our attention and created this thread. To the "measurements brigade" spare me/us any comments here. I am going to base my evaluation of the NCF GTX-D (R) NCF outlet set entirely on my ears. I will read the recommendations and comments of other users of this device, both good and bad. There is a 60 day money back guarantee, so no one is taking advantage of me. When that time approaches I will choose what to do. That is the fun of this hobby: Trying new things and seeing if they work for you. Thanks for the tip @biggysteve and no thanks and no further comments needed from the "measurements brigade". I've got this, thank you just the same. As I said I plan no further comments about the GTX-D (R) NCF outlet set on the Clear Line thread.
^^^^^^^^^Good to hear you're branching out and trying other products and I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts on the NCF outlet once you've spent some time with it. I wonder if you've given any thought to trying out the NCF Flux 50 that biggysteve and myself have had positive results with? +1 on the "measurement brigade"; nothing to see here so threadcrap elsewhere please.
Taking things one step at a time. Nine months ago I wasn't even sure if the Clear Line would work. I have read all of your posts on this thread, but I just mustn't have been ready to consider another NCF product yet. Then a few weeks ago I noticed biggysteve's post where he did a reply specifically singling out the GTX-D (R). This got me to start thinking about it. To be honest with you, after your question in this reply, I just now looked up the NCF Flux 50. I knew nothing about it, before today. It remains to be seen how the GTX-D (R) does in my system.
GTX-D(R) description (from Music Direct) Furutech - GTX-DR (Rhodium) Wall Outlet "Description Stainless-Steel Conductor Spring System and Rhodium-Plated Alpha Pure Copper Conductors Afford Exceptional Stiffness and Conductivity: Furutech GTX-DR Wall Outlet Optimizes AC Power Delivery In a perfect world, manufacturers would make duplex wall outlets out of pure copper due to its conductivity properties, yet the material's overly malleable aspects – and lack of stiffness – deem such an approach impossible. Furutech's GTX-DR 20A 125V wall outlet presents an ingenious solution to the problem and skirt the use of poorly conductive materials such as beryllium copper, phosphor bronze, and brass normally found in outlets. In each receptacle, the company's rhodium-plated Alpha pure copper conductors are strengthened and sprung by an innovative, non-magnetic, stainless-steel conductor spring system that firmly grips the plug without damaging the connector blades or plated surfaces. The end result: Far better interfacing and communication with the incoming AC power, and much cleaner, clearer, and purer musical performance. Make the switch today. Backed by our Satisfaction Guarantee." No arguments here. I suspect the main improvements from this device are from increasing the "real area of contact":"apparent area of contact" ratio at the metal/metal interface between the outlet and plug. I consider this the weakest link, but Im biased. This is because of their use of springs, and harder rhodium coating/stiffer system. More metallic bonds created=better sounding tunes. " When two surfaces are mated to one another, actual contact only occurs at various isolated points (the asperities) called junctions. When the areas of all the junctions are summed, one obtains the real area of contact. On the other hand, the area of contact which one determines through geometrical considerations of the actual part on a macroscopic level is called the apparent area of contact. The real area of contact is usually much less than the apparent area -- sometimes a thousand or more times less [11]. Typically the real area is about 1% of the apparent area. The diameter of typical junctions has been estimated to range from 1 micrometer to 100 micrometers [12]. Considering only the real area of contact, it is the protruding asperities which will make contact with the opposing surface (and its protruding asperities). On an atomic level, because a force is being applied to push two surfaces together, bonding will occur somewhere in the junction if the two materials have compatible structures. The extent of cleanliness and other factors such as temperature and environment also play a role. This is due to the nature of atomic forces. Figure 1 shows the force versus distance between two surfaces [13] which is similar to the inter-atomic force vs. distance between two atoms [14]. Being in the trough signifies bonding and somewhere in any given junction there will be atoms which are in the trough. Thus there will almost always be some bonding between two unlubricated surfaces when an external force is applied. How much bonding occurs over a given junction depends on many things including the force applied, the compatibility of the crystal structures, material properties such as Young's modulus, how closely the two surfaces mate to one another on an atomic level and how clean the surfaces are. As two surfaces are properly cleaned the friction coefficient can become very large due to adhesion effects, sometimes even exceeding 100 [15]. This type of cleaning can involve sputtering in a vacuum chamber. If one considers two surfaces, each containing an infinite number of atoms being pressed together, statistics tells us that at some location in the interface of the two surfaces, the atoms of the opposing materials will be properly positioned and will lie in the trough of Figure 1. This creates a bond. " So their reasoning makes sense.
Not mentioned in the overview, is the nanotechnology in the GTX-D(R) outlet. This is found by clicking the "specs" button to the right of the "overview" button. "SPECIFICATIONS Body material: Nylon/fiberglass with anti-resonance nano-sized crystalline, piezo ceramic particles and carbon. Cover material: Polycarbonate with a special anti-resonance nano-sized crystalline material "NCF" Parts set with nonmagnetic 2.0mm-thick stainless brace plate Specified for wire diameters of 4mm (set screw) Dimensions (LWH): 4.1" x 1.9" x 1.1" Furutech spade terminal FP-209 recommended for 10 AWG wire". If I get one and hear an improvment, how am I to know what % of the improvement is due to the improved metal/metal interface and what % is due to the nano particles?
Alpha Audio NET - Multitest plug in filters – ten plug in filters – measurements and blind test This one is pretty clear: we hear no difference. Everything is a straight line and we see nofiltering. We really tried, but we cannot detect anything up to 35 MHz.
The video doesn’t negate the fact that some of us do hear a difference and as said many times earlier on the thread, many of us who tested these were sceptical so you can’t explain what we hear as just confirmation bias. I’m not scared by this video - I mean according to Amir at ASR and his testing my DAC is awful yet everyone who listens to my rig loves it
