It’s taken me a few days to decide what I thought of the finale - but I think I figured it out. It’s like what the feeling would be if there was this person you were crazy in love with. For years your heart would race and your palms sweat every time you saw them. Passionate glances would be exchanged, but the time was never quite right. They were with someone or you were with someone until finally, years later, you found yourselves in the right place at the right time. You fell into bed, made mad love all night, and in the morning they turned to you and said “That was .... fine.”
I agree with CraigBic re: Jon Snow. He is a man bound by honor and doing what he thinks is right, that is something hammered home throughout the series. So I think he either a) turns himself in or b) confesses when Greyworm or whoever discovers Dany is dead. I'm not entirely sure why they don't kill him on the spot but maybe Ser Davos, who I think was in the area, talked them out of it or convinced them that Snow as a prisoner is worth more than Snow as a dead man. Not sure what Arya was doing. Maybe heading to Winterfell to tell her sister what happened? Maybe looking for the Hound since she can't say for sure he is dead?
To create the tension with Dany, who, as Arya rightly noted, would never suffer a threat to her claim to the throne. Had Jon not killed Dany, she would've sooner or later liquidated him. Moreover, I find it interesting that Sansa, Arya, and Bran still referred to Jon as their "brother" even after finding out his true identity. He is their step-cousin after all. So I think that has something to do with it too. Jon and Theon are Starks regardless of their blood.
It did in that it affected his outcome and Daeny's relationship to him. He had he not been who he was, we'd never understand why he could ride a dragon, accept that the dragon's accepted him (if that makes any sense), or the mystery behind Ned's secretive protective nature of his mother's identity. The wrinkle of having another living Targaryen complicated things and added a new dimension to the story. But, yeah, ultimately him being a Targaryen did him no good. He went the way of Aemon Targaryen: went to the wall on his own volition (or better said, went to the wall and then beyond it). I think I'm about done with talking about this show. I think it's been dissected and looked at with a high powered microscope enough (not saying there's anything wrong with other people wanting to talk about it into next year if you wish). In the end, it was a GREAT piece of entertainment that, unfortunately, in the end, left me a bit deflated. Ultimately, Martin is to blame for this. I would never criticize Benioff & Weiss in that it was their idea to bring this genius (but, sadly, unrealized story) to the small screen. They did the best they could. The first three books will go down as some of the best fantasy novels ever written. A deft craft of great narrative, brilliant dialogue, and the genius of taking various historical events and shaping them into something compelling and, often, shocking.
Also, for all their (pre-S1) lives they were raised together as siblings. Undoubtedly, in their eyes (well, maybe not Bran’s third eye) he is still their brother.
Arya states as much when Jon is about to reveal who he really is. She doesn't care. She's his brother no matter. She even calls him her brother at the end when she threatens to kill anyone that disparages him at 'the council'. Arya and Robb always had the strongest relationship with Jon as children. That was established early on.
I agree with you 100%... and for all of it's shortcomings, I'm glad it was adapted for TV. I would love to see Steven Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series adapted, if you are looking for deep and complex stories. Best of all, the series is complete (although prequels and additional stories are being written by Erikson and Ian Esslemont). If I recall correctly, there was an agreement to make a series of movies, but the production company was owned by Harvey Weinstein and the agreement was never signed. Jack Vance's "Tales of the Dying Earth" series might be a better fit for television, as each novel/novelette has a conclusion.
Interesting question. We already knew he was more of a leader and the most decent fellow in the show. Was it just sheer manipulation? I think the ultimate message is about doing the right thing no matter who you are. Jon says repeatedly in different seasons that he always wanted to feel like a real brother to them, but always felt lesser-than. No doubt Katelyn had a lot to do with that. She admitted that she couldn't embrace him as a son.
I don't think there was ever a suggestion that the detail that came out with her for the "negotiation" at the gate was intended to be her whole army?
It did, very much so - it was one of the main contributory factors in Dany's paranoia and eventual madness. As well as adding the intrigue as to whether he would claim the throne.
A significant number of Dothraki, accompanied by Jorah Mormont and Ghost, retreated, on foot, after that sacrificial first wave with the lighted swords. Basically running and screaming "OH ****!"
I’m “ok” with Episode 6 and its rather perfunctory close-out of some major story lines - it was “better” than Ep. 5, but not hugely satisfying and mind certainly not blown. Curious interval between Dany’s death and the assembly of some of the main houses 2 weeks later. What WAS rather satisfying was ending w the Stark kids, and cutting between their respective paths - effectively bookending the beginning of the series w House Stark. The themes of family, honor and duty - Ned Stark did well.
The ululating fell on deaf ears. Studies have shown the dead are hard of hearing. That's why they like lossy formats.
The more I reflect on it I agree with several here that Dany's "descent into madness" wasn't as swift or briefly chronicled as others think. In fact. . . from her turning around her Dothraki situation onward she was pretty crazed. And all her supposed "higher governmental calling" just manipulative double-speak.
I think the way it ended could provide a sequel someday. If it were a movie, I would think of a sequel immediately...... Arya exploring the unknown would be interesting, so would Jon going with the wildings. Don't know if it will ever happen, but it appears they left their options open..................
After the countless deaths in this show over 8 seasons, which ones stand out amongst the main characters or recurring characters who were important in how at least one story played out? (Not considering the many deaths of faceless/nameless characters that happened on screen or ones that really had no impact in the outcome of a story.) Most satisfying? Most deserved? Most undeserved? Most gruesome? Most heroic? Most shocking (of course, wouldn't be shocking to people familiar with the books if it happened in the book?) Lamest? Others? Most satisfying? After thinking long and hard, the most satisfying death for me was Littlefinger's and there were some others in contention, such as Walder Frey's, Joffrey's and Ramsay Bolton's. Littlefinger's was the most satisfying because he thought he had everyone fooled with his scheming right up to the point of when Sansa and Arya revealed they knew his game. His confidence with a smirk was still present until that last second of realization that he was going to die. Most deserved? I guess this one is just personal taste as there were many deaths that were deserved. Walder Frey, Joffrey, Ramsay Bolton, Cersei, Littlefinger, Tywin Lannister, Dany (though, it didn't feel like it since her transformation was too quick to even have a real opinion about it.) After thinking hard about this, the most deserved, for me, was Cersei, but she is also my pick for another one down below. Most undeserved? In contention, for me, are Ned Stark, Catelyn Stark, Robb Stark, Rickon Stark and Missandei. I think I choose Missandei as she didn't deserve what happened to her. The Starks who died, in the eyes of their enemies, were necessary to get them out of the picture since it was their goal to wipe out House Stark. Most gruesome? Easy for me... Ramsay Bolton. I can't think of a more gruesome way to die than to be eaten by your own dogs. Though, Oberyn Martell's death was gruesome too when he served as Tyrion's champion at his trial against The Mountain. Also, Dany's brother Viserys' death with the molten golden crown was gruesome. Ned Stark's beheading was too as are all beheadings. Most heroic? I have to say Jorah Mormont protecting Dany while fending off the undead. Other contenders: Lady Mormont was pretty heroic too in dying, while she was killing the undead Giant while all the others around her were running scared. Beric Dondarrion's death was also heroic in helping Arya and The Hound escape the undead. Uncle Benjen Stark was heroic by sacrificing himself to save Jon Snow from the white walkers and wights in season 7. Edit: Another contender is Theon Greyjoy's Most Shocking? Two words..........Red Wedding. I don't think I need to say more about that. (Of course, people who read the books knew it was coming.) Lamest? Cersei and Jaime Lannister's. Cersei deserved her death but it had to be a more cruel, satisfying and gruesome death. Jaime didn't deserve to go out like that either. Either he didn't deserve to die, completing his redemption arc, or he deserved a heroic death. No way did he deserve the lame death he got. I know there were many other deaths, but those were the ones that stood out for me and remained in my memory. What would be some of your choices for these types (and other types) of deaths throughout the run of the show?
