Garrard 301.

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Airbus, Oct 19, 2020.

  1. Airbus

    Airbus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Beirut - Lebanon
    A hype or a cult?

    [​IMG]
     
    AllenR likes this.
  2. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Neither, very high end deck in it's day with a lot more potential than anyone knew using 1950s tone arms and cartridges, properly serviced, well plinthed and coupled with a good arm and cart it can more than hold it's own against most of the modern competition. The trouble with six decades of companies, retailers and reviewers telling us that the latest gear is the best ever is that we sometimes don't appreciate just how good some of what we already had is and that the latest isn't always the greatest.
     
  3. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco es Cultura

    Location:
    Virginia
    Certainly looks the part. Would love to hear it.
     
  4. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Incidentally I think they look nicer in the grey hammertone finish, here's mine that left the Swindon factory in 1954 and is sounding better than ever 66 years later.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. sberger

    sberger Dream Baby Dream

    Fantastic table.

    Would love to own one.
     
  6. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco es Cultura

    Location:
    Virginia
    So
    Since these things were made before the age of stereo (mono only) you would think it would be compromised in sound quality. Nothing like that?

    Looks super cool.
     
  7. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    It's your thread - what's your opinion?
     
  8. Dubmart

    Dubmart Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, England
    You have to remember that the 301 is just a motor unit, so it's job is to rotate at the correct speed while adding as little noise as possible, the same as any modern deck and back in the fifties they did a pretty good job of nailing that, couple it with a good modern plinth, arm, I use a SME M2-12R, and a good cart and the sound is a revelation, I use mine for mono as it seemed appropriate.
     
  9. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    I own a modern table (Basis Debut with vacuum clamp and speed controller). I have become quite familiar with the sound of these older idler tables (Garrard 301 401 and Thorens 124). There is much to recommend these idler-based tables; the sound is lively and propulsive. When properly reconditioned, you don't get excessive rumble from these tables. Condition is the big deal when buying these tables. Someone who knows about these tables has to clean, re-lubricate and examine those parts, like belts and idler wheels to see what may need to be replaced or reconditioned.

    I know a lot of people, who are into vintage gear, will put an era-appropriate arm on these tables, but, I don't see why that needs to be the case. I would go with whatever arm I fancy, after all, it is the sound that matters.
     
    Halloween_Jack, jonwoody and Airbus like this.
  10. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    I was just going to ask if that's an SME arm, but you answered that. Someday, I'll make a table and look for a 3009.

    I do see a lot of 301s on wider plinths, is that so a better tone arm has room to be mounted at the proper distance?
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
    Dubmart likes this.
  11. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    I use a 401.
    Deeply impressive. Bass notes stop and start with precision.
    No slip because its idler so it has sledge hammer bass.
    Speed 33.3.
    No , the problem with them is rumble.
    This they did from new.
    Fault lies in plinth. I use a 'Martin Bastin
    Plinth. absolutely silent.
     
  12. Airbus

    Airbus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Beirut - Lebanon
    With a proper arm and cartridge, this is one of the best idler drive decks. Not to mention the stunning look, always wanted one.
     
    Tim Irvine and stereoptic like this.
  13. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Absolutely. I have a 401 in one of these SMD Acoustics Type II Quartz LE Plinth (Garrard 301/401) with an SMEIV (with optional damper, so a V by stealth). And a Zu-Audio version of the Denon DL103.

    Silent, rumble free and awesome sound quality.

    The rare, enigmatic Martin Bastin plinth would do the job too.

    Incidentally Garrard qualified the rumble of 401's by mounting them in a massive structure with an heroic amount of vibration isolation. So they knew that you had to use high mass to tame the rumble; and then fitted them to cheapo lightweight chipboard plinths which unfairly gave the 401 the reputation of a rumble-meister.
     
  14. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Seattle area
    One of the things which has puzzled me about the cult of the great idler tables is: Why do people only ever seem to compare these to belt drive designs? Nobody ever seems to mention that the primary sonic virtues claimed about idlers (PRaT, Drive and deep tight bass) are most of the same virtues claimed by direct drive advocates.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
    Thorensman likes this.
  15. allied333

    allied333 Audiophile

    Location:
    nowhere
    The Garrard 301 is a good TT. Not as good as the Garrod 401 that spec's out higher. But, for some reason audiophiles prefer the 301.
     
  16. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    Yes - odd that. And there is divided opinion about the virtues of a grease bearing vs oil bearing too.

    Might be retro appeal. Although a 401 is pretty retro thinking about it...
     
    jusbe likes this.
  17. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Idler and direct drive have same
    Characteristics.
     
  18. Larry I

    Larry I Senior Member

    Location:
    Washington, D.C.
    A lot of people seem to like the grease bearing more than the oil bearing; my local dealer, who specializes in these vintage tables, actually likes the oil bearing more. One of his customers, who prefers the grease bearing, put a grease bearing on his 401, so he has whatever benefits come from that bearing, along with the better motor of the 401.

    The table that I think closely resembles the sound of these idler tables is the 3-motor Audio Note table. It is a belt drive table, but, what it shares in common with idler tables is plenty of torque; maybe that is the secret sauce. Plenty of torque is also the characteristic of direct drive tables. I don't know how to separate out the contribution of all the other variables, so I don't really know if direct drive tables share certain attributes with idler tables, as far as sound goes. What I heard suggests both deliver a punchy, dynamic sound, but, on some of the direct drive tables I heard, there was a touch of edginess or a "brittle" sound. In any case, I think one can get fantastic sound from any kind of table, as long as it is well sorted and care has been taken to match up the various components. I know a number of people with systems at or near six figures that include a Garrard or Thorens idler table; they are certainly worthy of that kind of respect.
     
  19. Schoolmaster Bones

    Schoolmaster Bones Poe's Lawyer

    Location:
    ‎The Midwest
    Never having owned or used one, I can not say.

    I voted "turntable". It's definitely a turntable.
     
    PopularChuck likes this.
  20. Daddy Dom

    Daddy Dom Lodger

    Location:
    New Zealand
    Electrostatics speakers - hype or cult?
    Twelve-inch arms - hype or cult?
    New-fangled CDs - hype or cult?
    Optical cartridges - hype or cult?
    Auto-changers - hype or cult?

    The answer is neither, it simply is.
     
    Saint Johnny and Gibsonian like this.
  21. Rolltide

    Rolltide Forum Resident

    Location:
    Vallejo, CA
    People who collect SHM-CDs wear robes and goat masks and meet in secret dungeons, so that's definitely a cult. Agree with the rest.
     
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  22. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    In many ways the evidence suggests to me , that HI FI was spot on by late 60,s
    Leak amps or Quad, 301 , or 401,
    SME, 3009, 111S, ESL 57,s or 63,s.
    Not outclassed by todays gear.
    I mean this stuff boogies.
    Todays gear? the Mauufacturers have
    Learnt how to make them cheaper as parts are so good and cheap, not like years ago.
    Loud too.
    But the way I see it, 10 watts class A,
    Not necessarily tube, is so dynamic,
    It will have you on the edge of your seat,
    Record after record, goes on till the wee hours.
    Power alone is not the same as good dynamics.
    BACK TO THE 301,401, THE BBC used them till Technics Direct Drive came along.
    JAPANESE PRECISION came the right time for the far East.
    Garrard were struggling. The 301, and later the 401, were Rolls Royce products
    That were the subject to cost cutting.
    They simply were not built as well as in the 301,s heyday.
    But today specialist's can elevate then
    Back to the top, where they belong.
     
  23. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    I’m a mid-1970’s Japan technology guy myself. My Marantz was essentially driven by Standard Radio of Japan AKA Superscope. And if it weren’t for JBL, I would’ve had Pioneer speakers to complete the Far East package. (Albeit their HPM line was developed by an ex-JBL engineer)
     
  24. Whoopycat

    Whoopycat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Des Moines
    I think Herb Reichert wrote a column about these people.
     
  25. Joe F

    Joe F Senior Member

    Location:
    Dallas TX USA
    [​IMG]

    My cream color 301, don’t seem to have a color photo!!
     

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