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Gastwirt Chicago Transit Authority CD: 1 or 2 disc version preferred?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by vette442, Mar 21, 2007.

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  1. vette442

    vette442 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Hi all -
    I read many of the the CTA threads and never saw if there was a preference for one of the Gastwirt CDs over the other - the 2 CD Japan for USA pressing (CK9809/C2K00008) or the single disc (CGK8/DIDP 071539).

    The Gold Mastersound appears to be a clear winner for digital CTA, but if you had both versions of the Gastwirt like I do, which one would you keep? Thanks -
    Terry
     
  2. DennisF

    DennisF Forum Resident

    Terry, I read that the mastering is identical. CBS just put the contents on one disc, in place of two discs. Same thing with Chicago II. Dennis
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Gold Mastersound blows any others out of the water. Sorry.
     
  4. vette442

    vette442 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Thanks guys. I wasn't sure if the mastering was the same since the matrices arer different. Everything I read here clearly shows the Mastersound to be the winner. However, until I cough up what one of those brings now, I need to sell one of these standard issues. That should get me 5-10% of what I need to buy the Mastersound ;)
     
  5. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    Ok, so this is the ONE to get?! Ok...now comes the task of finding one in good shape. Gosh, those Rhinos plain suck.
     
  6. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    :agree:

    There's a "silkiness" on the mastersound that isn't there on the Gastwirt which is more "grainy" for want of a better word.

    I find that "silkiness" to be a common characteristic of a decent mastering - and why not, low generation analogue tape has a silky quality. A bad digital transfer, poor source tapes or too much tinkering often adds a hardness or grain to the sound.

    Glad you like it Steve, any chance of you getting to work on some classic period Chicago?
     
    Dino likes this.
  7. badfingerjoe

    badfingerjoe Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey
    That's a great way to describe the CTA Mastersound disc Mal!...There is something about listening to a good CD when everything is done right...as you said...the right master tape,a good transfer and no tinkering makes for a "silky" listen.

    JF
     
  8. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Searching For Simplicity

    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    If only Steve could've mastered those Rhino releases...or perhaps Rhino stalwart Bill Inglot.
     
  9. AudiophilePhil

    AudiophilePhil Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    :righton: That's one of my audiophile wishes too.
     
  10. Gardo

    Gardo Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Good description, Mal. I've posted (too) many times on these early Chicago releases, and I agree 100% with you and Steve on this one. I also find that same silky quality, though not quite to the Doug Sax level, on Mark Wilder's "Group Portrait" masterings.
     
  11. mr_mjb1960

    mr_mjb1960 I'm a Tarrytowner 'Til I die!

    Neither...the speed on "Introduction" is slow initially,then speeds up so it sounds like there's a warp in the mastertape...the same for "I'm A Man",however,the speed on that slows down considerbly to a SNAIL'S CRAWL before it reaches the end! NOT a very good sign of a great CD...the Rhino CD corrects these. Michael Boyce
     
  12. Gardo

    Gardo Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia
    Hmm, not sure I understand you here. I do know that there's tape drag at the beginning of "Introduction" on the Rhino and Gastwirt masterings, not on the Wilder or Sax or original LP masterings. Example here:

    "Introduction" x 6

    In order: (CD source--can't remember-sorry--been awhile), Lp (second pressing, not the double-eye), Gastwirt, Sax, Wilder, Rhino (Dave Donnelly)

    Haven't heard the speed fluctuation you're describing on "I'm a Man" on any of the versions, myself.
     
  13. Randy W

    Randy W Original Member

    Anyone know how the DVD-A stacks up against the Gold Mastersound CD?
     
  14. Mal

    Mal Phorum Physicist

    There isn't one :)

    Their second album Chicago (aka Chicago II) was released on DVD-A as was Chicago V.
     
  15. evad

    evad Well-Known Member

    Location:
    .
    There are two DVD Audio discs - Chicago II and V. CTA was not released on DVD Audio.
     
  16. eelkiller

    eelkiller Technically right but still wrong

    That would have been nice to have CTA considering the quality of II and V on DVD A.

    Alas it will never happen
     
  17. Randy W

    Randy W Original Member

    Ooops..

    Thanks, all! :)
     
  18. Juan Samus

    Juan Samus New Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    The Mastersound doesn't have those defects. And there are TWO masterings of the Rhino, from what I can gather. The first version has the defects. That's why nobody can agree when it comes to the Rhinos.
     
  19. Nostaljack

    Nostaljack Resident R&B enthusiast

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    We almost had "X" as well but the others didn't sell well enough.

    Ed
     
  20. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    Agreed-
    invest in the Sony gold cd.
     
  21. OldJohnRobertson

    OldJohnRobertson Martyr for Even Less

    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    I got a lossless rip of the Sony MasterSound disc from a friend and I must say I think the original Columbia disc and the Rhino both sound better. The Columbia disc especially sounds like it was a straight flat transfer whereas the Sony MasterSound disc has EQ adjustments that I just don't like. Rhino, while louder, doesn't sound like it was subject to the same types of EQ that the MasterSound disc was. If the Rhino disc was EQ'd (which I assume it had to have been), I guess those adjustments sound better to me.
     
  22. LesPaul666

    LesPaul666 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey

    In all due respect, I think the Columbia Gaswirt has some serious smiley EQ boost in the high end that sounds like it was most certainly *not* there to begin with... Not a bad disc, though.:)

    To me it's the lesser of the two evils that are easily available. The Rhino disc sounds like a "flatter" transfer, but it just sounds lousy 2-D, and brittle to me. I thought the Rhino Chicago II was even worse. I've been looking for the Mastersound CD version of the first one for awhile now, to no avail.:(
     
  23. OldJohnRobertson

    OldJohnRobertson Martyr for Even Less

    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    Interesting...to me, the only part of the Rhino CTA disc that sounds brittle is the first 1:40 or so of "Introduction" where you can tell the master was a bit chewed up. As far as the Rhino remaster of Chicago, I honestly can hear no sonic difference between the Rhino and my Columbia 2-disc set other than the Rhino being a bit louder. It hardly sounds compressed to me at all. The waveforms on that one actually look better than any other of the Rhino remasters...

    The one place where the Rhino has it all over Columbia is Chicago III. I didn't think it would be possible for Chicago III to sound better than the old Columbia disc...until I heard the Rhino disc. Man, what a treat that is. The "Elegy" suite has never sounded better. "Sing a Mean Tune Kid" has such an unbelievable punch to it...oh man I could gush on and on about that disc. ;)
     
  24. AudiophilePhil

    AudiophilePhil Senior Member

    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Even with a cheap CD player, the sonic superiority of the Sony Mastersound Gold CD of "Chicago Transit Authority" over the Rhino CD is so obviously noticeable.
    The Rhino suffered from too much tinkering and is too grainy, loud and compressed while the Columbia Mastersound Gold CD sounds "silky" which tells you that it is almost a flat transfer. By the way, it was remastered by the veteran recording engineer, Mr, Doug Sax.
    Even our host agrees that the Gold Mastersound blows any others out of the water.

    Chicago Transit Authority - S/T - Gold Mastersound
    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...50&postcount=3
     
  25. Greatest Hits

    Greatest Hits Just Another Compilation

    I think he said that it shouldn't be on the Rhino versions which is probably why you can't hear it on it.:shh:
     
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