Genesis - did they really sell out?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by manco, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Yea, Phil always got crap for that. I always felt that Tony was captain of the ship when it came to Genesis.
     
  2. Instant Dharma

    Instant Dharma Fish or a mountain to scale

    Location:
    East Bay, Ca
    Ive been telling people this exact same thing for years. Whatever they did commercially he could always get his longer ideas across. I think if it wasn't for Tony they wouldn't have soldiered on after Ant and then Peter left.

    As long as there are people who prefer/don't prefer Gabriels stuff with them
    There is always going to be this argument.
     
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  3. lee59

    lee59 ...since 1959

    Location:
    Hollister, CA
    They didn't "sell out" per se.They traded one smaller fanbase for another larger one.

    I hung in for awhile but they lost me with Invisible Touch.

    Thank goodness real progressive rock is still thriving, albeit in smaller numbers.
     
  4. lee59

    lee59 ...since 1959

    Location:
    Hollister, CA
    From the documentaries, it's pretty clear that Tony called the shots. Pretty easy to see why Gabriel split.
     
    MikeManaic61 likes this.
  5. notesofachord

    notesofachord Only the Stones Remain

    Invisible Touch is great! So is Foxtrot.

    There's no "rule" saying that one has to only enjoy one or the other.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  6. notesofachord

    notesofachord Only the Stones Remain

    "The Brazilian"


    I couldn't care less whether the above track is deemed "true prog rock" or not. It's certainly musically challenging and is not throw-away pop.
     
  7. MikeManaic61

    MikeManaic61 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Virginia
    Glad you like it! I just recently ordered this several hours ago.
     
  8. lee59

    lee59 ...since 1959

    Location:
    Hollister, CA
    Tony lost my respect after watching the documentary where he gushes all over Daryl Stuermer's 'superior' interpretation of Hackett's solo on 'Fifth of Firth'.

    Not sure what Tony is hearing, but there's more nuance and soul in how Hackett approaches that solo than most guitarists achieve in a lifetime.
     
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  9. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    Not at all, the song is pretty straightforward and probably one of the bands least demanding pieces aside from the vocals - it likely wasn't performed as during the And Then There Were Three and Duke tour you already had Say It's Alright Joe and Ripples, so adding another track like this possibly would have been a bit much. I will admit, I'd love to have heard it since Tony in 1978 used a Mellotron live to compensate for Phil overdubs, and you can hear it to great effect on EEOM and Afterglow - this one would be ridiculous since the chorus would essentially be Phil doing the lead and a massive choir backing it. The studio track is great, but it's a very warm track, and it might just be a little overdone in that chorus.
     
    manco likes this.
  10. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    Hackett approaches nearly all of his writing with nuance and passion - when he left, I would admit that he surpassed his best Genesis guitar parts multiple times (everyone go listen to Spectral Mornings please)
     
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  11. notesofachord

    notesofachord Only the Stones Remain

    Exactly, Steve left and made some great music with his own band and Genesis went on to, change, yes, but continue to evolve and make good music as well.
     
  12. intv7

    intv7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    :confused: They most certainly are not. Those are not two mutually exclusive concepts. One can "go commercial" while still being true to themselves and what they feel is right for their art.

    It's that simple.

    The question was not "Did Genesis go more commercial?". The question was "Did they sell out?". And as far as I can see, they did not compromise their morality or principals in exchange for money, which is the very definition of "selling out". Artists who sell out make product that they do not believe in. That's simply not the case here.
     
    Instant Dharma likes this.
  13. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    This can't be excluded as a possibility. Glenn Campbell (of all people!) said that Capitol Records execs sat him down and played The Knack for him, and then told him that was the type of music that they wanted him to make. :laugh:

    Ahmed Ertugun likely gave his favored artists plenty of latitude. At the time, it's not hard to believe that threats to be dropped come quickly if the bigwigs don't hear hits.
     
    Huntigula likes this.
  14. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    I agree.
     
  15. thepigdog

    thepigdog Music and beer

    Location:
    Maine
    Is "selling out" the same as changing style?
     
  16. intv7

    intv7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    No.
     
  17. thepigdog

    thepigdog Music and beer

    Location:
    Maine
    Then no
     
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  18. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Resident

    Location:
    new york city
    All you are doing is providing excuses for selling out, not rebutting the claim that they did.
     
  19. Thorpy

    Thorpy Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Dream Theater have demonstrated exactly why repeating yourself is a very bad idea; after the Metropolis album they should have tried something different; instead they just appeared to go further up their own backsides with more and more complex arrangements and too much excessive instrumental widdling...culminating in the truly awful The Astonishing monstrosity!!!
     
  20. intv7

    intv7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Where's the evidence that they compromised their principles and made music that they didn't want to make, just for the money?
     
  21. pool_of_tears

    pool_of_tears Music Appreciator

    Location:
    Eastern Iowa
    The reasons for Peter’s departure are well documented.
     
  22. OptimisticGoat

    OptimisticGoat Everybody's escapegoat....

    What a cop out. Wtf did they sell “out” from ?
    If you don’t like their later music then fine but bear in mind that not enough people liked their earlier music at first pass when you did and without their later music you would not be able to post about Genesis as anything more than one of many late 60s early 70/ bands that fizzled out. Supper’s Ready did not sell in the late 70s and early 80s.
     
    Christian Hill likes this.
  23. OptimisticGoat

    OptimisticGoat Everybody's escapegoat....

    No. Until We Can’t Dance there was a clear difference. That album had some Phil and some Genesis which was the beginning of the end for me.
     
  24. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    It has nothing do with one liking their music or not.
     
  25. OptimisticGoat

    OptimisticGoat Everybody's escapegoat....

    I think you stopped listening...
     

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