Genesis - did they really sell out?

Essentially what Steven Wilson was going for on his latest LP was 1980s Genesis w/o ever wanting to admit it. Instead he cites Peter Gabriel as what he was going for.

 

I don't think so. It was a gradual awakening of Phil Collins' nack for writing irresistably catchy pop songs. It was the 80s, he was lucky, his style was popular in the mainstream.

 

You're exaggerating for effect.

Tony insisted that if Phil had played them the demo for "In the Air Tonight," that he would've lobbied for it to be a Genesis track. To the benefit of Phil's solo career, he held it back. He never said so, specifically, but "Man on the Corner" had to have been a leftover from Face Value.

Phil was at his biggest during 1985 with No Jacket Required, Live Aid, having produced and played drums with Clapton and others, TV appearances and movies. What came the next year? Invisible Touch, which benefitted immensely from Phil's solo success.

 

...and yet here you still are. Oh boy.
Please provide more brilliant insight. I cannot get enough of tired cliches like "the proof is in the pudding".

 

Funny how the less successful often label the successful as "sell outs."
In the music industry there are all kinds of ways to "make it." Many of which don't seem to make sense.
Just listen to the different singing capabilities between Tom Waits and Jim Reeves.

If enough customers continue to buy for long enough you are probably one who has "made it."

When a group, or artist, changes from what they once were it is their choice...for whatever reason.
If you like the change then keep buying. If you don't...well...Like Nancy said, These boots are made for walkin'

 

Indeed. Who would have predicted that Genesis would have outlasted some their flashier peers from the early 70s? How many bands can you think of that were able to gradually build up their success over time, achieving more popularity in their second decade than in their first? How many bands can you think of where every member contributed something vital to the mix songwriting-wise and which launched several successful solo careers? This reflects a remarkably durable stable of talent.

 

How do you sell out with a song that wasn't intended to be a single twice?

 

He’s obviously chemically altered.

 

Absolutely, but I read in an interview that he had some real fun with GTR. What I never heard of him though are the reasons why that band had such a brief existence. As for his solo career, no doubt that it actually more than evidenced what was his "true cups of tea", as it seems Hackett couldn't any longer postpone his ever arising interests in developing his eclectic tastes, richly showed by his varied approaches throughout his prolific career: Classical, Folk, World Music (Eastern/Middle eastern, Andean, some South American rythms, Caribbean, among others), Progressive Rock and even Blues.

 

I'd argue he stayed "progressive"

I'm not sure he stayed "prog" though. Lots of interesting ideas but admittedly it was always his guitar work that was the incentive, and maybe Nick Magnus too. If anything, GTR was sort of the beginning of the end of "throw everything at the wall and see if people like it" Steve.

 

True. I can't think of another band that had a bigger 2nd decade than Genesis.

 

R.E.M.

Possibly? I suppose you could argue they kind of blew their mainstream status in the span between 1987 and 1994 however, relatively speaking.

 

If punk was a meteorite that killed hippies and prog

I liken punk to the meteorite that killed off the dinosaurs.

The meteorite didn't kill all reptiles, and some descendants of dinosaurs survive as birds - much like how Genesis became more pop, or Pink Floyd temporarily became more aggressive (Animals, The Wall, The Final Cut) - adaptation to a new environment.

As well as that, some mammals have evolved characteristics similar to dinosaurs to fill that niche (eg long neck of Giraffe).. just like how some punk, new wave & indie bands took on elements of prog as their career progressed.

 

Gabriel is more "fashionable"..."cooler" in inside music circles - and don't take this wrong - I like much of P.G.'s music - but I think you're right. SW really wanted to capture 80's Genesis/P.C. more than P.G. in reality.

 

Did they sell out? Yeah. So what? They still made some great music.

 

I'll plead ignorance to hearing the record front to back though, Song of I sounds like it could have been a Peter Gabriel 3 or 4 track, and Permanating sounds like... well, neither Genesis or Peter.

 

If you're referring to FYFM, very simple, by purposely crafting a pop song instead of a prog song. Regardless if it was to be a single or not. The song is what is it is, as is the case of Turn It On Again and Misunderstanding. The intent of the song was to appeal to a pop audience instead of their long time prog fans. As I stated before, compare FYFM to Supper's Ready. Who was FYFM aimed at? Sorry mate but they sold out.

 

It's only from the same album that had an intentional single written (Many Too Many), following the last album's attempt at selling out (Your Own Special Way) by your own definition.

It's like saying Genesis sold out with Selling England because it has More Fool Me on it, because the rest of the album doesn't count when it has a pop song. Even though it has at least 2 proper ones.

Misunderstanding was a case of Phil being the obvious single writer starting his career, factually calling Turn it On Again an intentional break for radio is also objectively wrong, having sections written by all three members, some being months apart.

Also, we're just skipping... 4 albums of band development for the sake of argument? I won't go into detail since there's a search button, but I believe ATTWT is genuinely Wind and Wuthering 2 in terms of composition and style. It's also no secret that Genesis was playing large venues by the time of A Trick of the Tail - call it selling out, or call it a natural progression. I guess it depends on how adverse you are to musicians not making your favorite record for their whole career.

 

The only thing punk killed off was pub-rock.

 

On the contrary, FYFM is one of my favorite Genesis songs and And Then There Were Three is one my favorite albums by them as it's very much it's own beast. I just call as I see it. Pop songs for a pop audience, not prog songs for a prog audience. And I agree that Your Own Special is the beginning of the sellout. Every event needs a starting point and that fits just fine, but I see no natural progression from anything on SEBTP and I know Genesis as well as you do.

 

Why is More Fool Me pop? I thought it was slotted in perfectly in the LP. Am I crazy? I think if you go hunting for proggy pop or poppy prog with a certain aim of genrefying, you're going to find whatever you want. But you ignore the folk, rock or whatever else was in there. And the intent of the artist? pfft.

WAW is not comparable to ATTWT in any way that I can see either. I have tried the later one plenty, and enjoyed the former one enough to know this.I always had a love for Your Own Special Way. It is of a piece with the LP, same as MFM was. I really have a hard time weeding out the distinction in the playing singing or writing. Is it the lyric?

 

I agree 100% but I can't argue every point with the Earl of Mar, so thanks.

 

That Beat album is killer!

 

Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Welcome to the Pleasuredome has a title track > 10 minutes. So prog was coming full circle in New Wave.

 

Albums Revisited: Genesis – “Invisible Touch”