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Genesis - did they really sell out?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by manco, Sep 10, 2019.

  1. Tattooed Headshrinker

    Tattooed Headshrinker Accidentally Like A Martyr

    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    If you compare 80's Genesis to solo Phil Collins or Mike + The Mechanics of the same era, it's all very similar. Thereby, they were making the type of music they wanted to at the time, rather in or out of Genesis. Was it popular? Yes! Was it a sell out? I don't think so. It's not like they were writing jingles for Diet Coke commercials.
     
    carlwm likes this.
  2. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Sounds like what he did wasn't what you wanted or expected. He probably had his reasons.
     
  3. manco

    manco Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    People keep citing The Flower Kings, which makes me cringe.
     
    William Smart likes this.
  4. Rufus rag

    Rufus rag Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The Flowerkings
     
    William Smart likes this.
  5. Icenine1

    Icenine1 Forum Resident

    Yes they did.
    Made lots and lots of money though and some of it is fun to listen to.
     
    Rufus rag likes this.
  6. Tristero

    Tristero Touching from a distance

    Location:
    MI
    Well, Radiohead was almost the reverse situation. Fans embraced them when they were more accessible with The Bends and OK Computer, but then many grew disillusioned when the "went difficult" after that. Personally, I'm glad that they evolved and followed their own muse, but I can sort of understand why some turned away.
     
  7. jwoverho

    jwoverho Senior Member

    Location:
    Mobile, AL USA
    If you follow their trajectory after LAMB, it’s inevitable that they would end up with albums like INVISIBLE TOUCH. It’s not too far from “Ripples” to “Your Own Special Way” to “Follow You Follow Me” to “Alone Again” to “Taking It All To Hard” to “Throwing It All Away” to “Hold On My Heart”.
     
  8. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Radiohead never stopped being a band that could play arenas and headline big festivals, despite claims that they had gotten too artsy or whatever. In 2001, they played Madison Square Garden, then played two shows at Liberty State Park only two weeks later.

    Just two years ago, they did four shows at MSG in a week. So I guess being "difficult" paid off.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
    Mirror Image likes this.
  9. William Smart

    William Smart 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Location:
    North Haven, CT
    I don't think I'll ever feel the thrill I felt in 69 at 15 hearing In the Court Of The Crimson Kingo soon after ELP. The first time I heard Trespass I was so blown away. It's my favorite Genesis still. Yeah they did better, but that one captivates me still. Hoping for something new to do that to me. Porcupine did that but that seems so long ago. Loved Aristocrats at first, but got bored fast. Still it beats Pop. jk it's all subjective....I keep telling myself that :D
     
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  10. Mirror Image

    Mirror Image Tōru Takemitsu (1930 - 1996)

    The first album of anything that I loved unequivocally was King Crimson’s Beat back when I was a teenager. My dad played this album on LP for me and I was completely mesmerized. This album has stayed with me so many years later. It still sounds fresh and I hear something new in it each time I revisit it. I think everyone has only a handful of albums that have meant more to them more than any others. I think one of my problems (or I’m not sure if you’d call it a ‘problem’) was at a young age I was bombarded with so much music --- King Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Rush, The Police, Miles Davis, Duke Ellington, Bill Evans, Stan Kenton, etc. These were musicians/bands that were always on at my house when I was growing up. All of this music got under my skin and when I got older I basically became so oversaturated to the point where I didn’t know what I was going to listen to next (a good position to be in in hindsight). :) Nowadays, I listen to whatever I want to and sometimes it’s Terje Rypdal whereas other times it may be Alison Krauss or Ravel. Good music is good music --- the genre doesn’t really matter at the end of the day, but I suppose I’m a pretty big hypocrite as I still think about genres from time to time. ;)
     
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  11. Tristero

    Tristero Touching from a distance

    Location:
    MI
    They've maintained a very healthy following, to be sure, though their album sales declined. I don't think anyone could argue that they "sold out" with releases like Kid A, Amnesiac and Hail to the Thief in the same way that people make that claim about Genesis in the 80s.
     
  12. William Smart

    William Smart 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Location:
    North Haven, CT
    Fripp recruiting Belew was the best thing he ever did....after Bruford Wetton lol. I love the Belew eras.. I'll listen to anything, but find that pop these days does nothing for me. I listen to mostly older Progressive,Rock, Blues,R&B,Soul, Big Band.... most anything else.
     
    carlwm, gja586 and Mirror Image like this.
  13. William Smart

    William Smart 21st Century Schizoid Man

    Location:
    North Haven, CT
    Good ol Roid Dolt:D I mean Roine Stolt
     
  14. manco

    manco Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Three of a Perfect Pair FTW
     
    William Smart likes this.
  15. Mirror Image

    Mirror Image Tōru Takemitsu (1930 - 1996)

    Yes, indeed. I think Belew’s style was a great fit for Fripp’s. Well, for me, there’s good pop and then there’s the other kind of pop which includes poor vocals of the auto-tune variety, boring harmonic sequences, melodies that sound cookie-cutter, and rhythms that only do one thing --- pound in your ear until it bleeds.
     
    William Smart likes this.
  16. manco

    manco Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Can we get back to Genesis? I still can't get over how they used Squonk as the audition song for a new singer in 1975. It's almost as if they knew Phil nailed it and nobody they tried could come close, but they had to go through the motions!
     
    William Smart and carlwm like this.
  17. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    It didn't sound like that.
     
    William Smart likes this.
  18. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    I hope you're right.
     
  19. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Oh, I don't doubt that it sounded that way to you. I just think it's a stretch to believe Phil Collins doesn't "get" prog because of a flippant remark he made in 1982 about a song that was 10 years old by then. It wouldn't be strange if he'd lost enthusiasm for it, but that's not the same as saying he didn't get the type of music he was a key part of for so many years.
     
  20. tcj

    tcj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Phoenix
    Abacab is the last Genesis album I enjoy as a full album. After that I pick and choose the more interesting pieces. They didn't entirely do away with their prog roots, though. They just adapted and updated them to fit the current times. Songs like "Mama," "Home By The Sea," "Domino," "The Brazillian," "Driving the Last Spike," "Dreaming While You Sleep," and "Fading Lights" kept the prog flame burning even if they sounded more modern and less complex. While I'm not a huge fan of this era, I can even appreciate some of the pop tunes on those albums, like "Tonight x3," "Hold On My Heart" (which I think has a really beautiful melody,) and "No Son Of Mine." I used to really enjoy Calling All Stations but having listened to it recently, I didn't really enjoy it anymore. It felt very hollow, though I do appreciate the attempt to steer back a bit more progressive, and Ray Wilson's voice is very nice. The majority of my Genesis listening is centered on the entire Gabriel period and TotT and W&W, though.
     
    mx20, FACE OF BOE and William Smart like this.
  21. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    And from Mad Man Moon to We Can't Dance.
     
    jwoverho likes this.
  22. The Bishop

    The Bishop Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dorset, England.
    Personally, I applaud the band for shooting at the stars and reaching their goal. The Invisible Touch album and stadium tour was hugely ambitious and could just as easily have fallen flat. But they adapted to the 1980s brilliantly and if the stellar success they achieved isn’t progressive, I don’t know what is?
     
  23. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Of course I can't be sure, none of us can, but I got that expression from what he said and his whole attitude.
     
  24. Mirror Image

    Mirror Image Tōru Takemitsu (1930 - 1996)

    I think you’ve forgotten that Collins had no intention of getting out from behind the drum kit. Collins actually wanted to carry on as an instrumental band. He said something to the effect of ”Well, the vocals just get in the way anyway...” Well, if a vocalist can’t nail Squonk, then it’s chances are they weren’t going to do well in the other pieces they’ve written at that time either. They actually had two different auditions for vocalists --- the first one was trying to find someone to sing all of the pieces on A Trick of the Tail and when Collins did and everyone liked it, they held auditions yet again before they went out on tour because Collins didn’t want to come out from behind the drum kit, but this is when they brought in Bill Bruford as a hired gun, which was someone who admired Bruford’s playing and knew he was right for the job. Anyway, I think it worked out quite well for all involved, wouldn’t you agree? :D
     
  25. manco

    manco Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Amazing that Phil once thought that and then a decade later became known as one of the great rock vocalists.
     
    carlwm likes this.

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