Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

Seems to be a +1dB level shifted version of this one

which is also proposed further down in that post.

 

Just picked up a Japanese pressing of Wind (VJCP-23119). The peaks levels match Dave's Black Triangle.

94.4
87.8
79.4
82.7
67.7
72.9
41.0
94.8
97.0

Here is a sample:

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=cmcyakluQzNLVlVLSkE9PQ

 

I have a copy of Duke on Virgin Japan that matches the Black Triangle peak levels listed here:

>>>>Level-shifted copy of Version 1?
[PaulT] - V/C 32VD-1036, Japan (Black Triangle) : 79.0% - 94.5% - 48.8% - 92.9% - 84.5% - 100.0% - 81.8% - 82.3% - 80.9% - 89.5% - 96.3% - 79.6%
NOTE: this version has not yet been checked against the others to see whether it is a unique mastering or a level-shifted clone.<<<<

Catalog number on this one is VJCP-23121. All of the 1991 Virgin Japan pressings I have tested match the BT peak levels.

Here is a sample if anyone wants to confirm that this Duke mastering is simply a level-shifted clone of the V/C:
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=cmcxSXQ1bWdwM21Ga1E9PQ

 

Black Elk, do you require the single release of Land Of Confusion or is this one for another thread?

 

I have only included what has been discussed/posted, and, to date, that has meant the albums. If there is enough interest in adding the CD singles, I'll gladly include whatever the Forum comes up with.

If I can, I will try to put together a Ver. 3 of this thread for next week, so anyone who has more data to add, please post up (I'm sure Jeff has a bunch of Mongolian pink swirls awaiting his attention? ). Where's Raf to analyze Jeff's posted samples?

 

Duke

I'll gladly do the analysis, but I'll need a sample from the Duke V/C EMI Swindon (Version 1). It has to be the same section as Jeff's bit -- the first 45 seconds of "Behind the Lines". (How did we arrive at the hypothesis that it's a level-shifted Version 1 anyway? My memory is so foggy now...)

 

Here you go: https://rcpt.yousendit.com/705896458/72a62d0d71e6d5fd1a6f9dfa17a92a12

I'll have to look back in my notes. Maybe it came from the period when all the Black Triangles looked to be level-shifted clones, and then we started finding variations.

 

Duke

Thanks! This was easy. Jeff's Virgin Japan Duke is not the same mastering as Version 1 at all. Not even close.

 

Okay, now what about the Black Triangle?

 

Peak levels match. Should be the same.

All the 1991 Virgin CDs I've tested have identical EAC peaks to the BTs.

Btw, that sample of W&W from the 1991 Virgin Japan disc is still up a few posts up, if that's needed.

So Duke and Trespass (so far) seem to be the confirmed cases of
Black Triangles having a unique mastering?

And it appears that as regards Japanese Genesis CDs: Black Triangles, "Big Artist" (1988 pressings) and the 1991 pressings all match, right?

 

Raf?

Here's what we have (comparing the BTs to Nimbus or similar pressings), using 'same' to account for level and/or track start and/or slight EQ differences:

Confirmed 'same'

Nursery Cryme
Foxtrot
Selling England By The Pound
The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
A Trick Of The Tail
Invisible Touch


Confirmed different

Trespass
And Then There Were Three
Duke


Unconfirmed

Wind & Wuthering
Seconds Out


No BT reported (or no BT exists?)

Live
Abacab
Three Sides Live
Genesis
We Can’t Dance
The Way We Walk, Volume One: The Shorts
The Way We Walk, Volume Two: The Longs

Barring examples of changes to track starts, it seems like all reported 32VD, VJD and VJCP series are the same.

 

We should probably specify the 1991 VJCPs for any lurking friends.

The VJCP prefix was also used for CDs issued in Japan in 1995, and the Japanese mini lp CDs. Both of course used the inferior "Definitive Edition" remasterings.

 

Some FGTR questions:

1. this thread http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=165102 discusses the Varese Vintage version and it is said to have the same indexing issues as the London version so it is likely a clone, but can someone please provide EAC data for the Varese?

2. Jeff: does your Jonjo Music copy, that exactly matches the London (level-wise), ALSO have the indexing problem described in the above thread?

 

I don't have that version any longer, sorry.

 

Oh well, when you buy it again, as you surely will, please report back!

 

Nah, my West German London CD and the DCC do the trick for me.

 

Until Dr. M convinces you otherwise!

Can you confirm that your WG London matches these levels posted earlier for the Korean London and Jonjo Music versions?

84.8% - 78.1% - 70.5% - 87.4% - 70.2% - 92.5% - 71.8% - 84.4% - 96.5% - 93.0% - 94.2% - 68.3% - 92.6% - 86.5% - 48.6% - 76.4% - 79.6%

I assume it matches, but better safe than sorry.

 

Raf,

Jeff's sample is still up, how does it compare to the 'Nimbus' and 'Sanyo' versions?

 

Did you check against the Atlantic?

 

Some more open issues, if anyone can help:

FGTR - Is the Music Collection International version related to the other post-`92 versions?

SEBTP - Are the Sonopress versions related to the DADC version?

W&W - Is the 32VD/VJCP mastering unique?

Seconds - No comparisons yet done.

Duke - Comparison missing for Charisma Yellow Rays / V/C Blue Face mastering.

The Rest - No comparisons yet done.

 

Sorry, I don't have access to my Pro Tools setup (which I use for comparing waveforms) for the next couple of months or so.

 

No sweat. The question then is: do I go ahead with a Ver. 3 now (with all the open questions) or wait a few months, let members have a chance to post up, and then do a Ver. 3 when we've (i.e., YOU'VE ) had a chance to answer all the open issues?

 

Well, please don't wait on me to decide whether to do v3 or not. Two months is just an estimate; it could be longer. I'm... somewhere else these days.

 

We'd need to confirm but it sounds just like what I remember of the Nimbus. Good enough but too bright and not as good as the Japan pressed Atco and V/C.

 

How can the later Atlantic be based on the DADC from Austria? Didn't the Atlantic come out way before the DADC?