Genesis - early CD versions thread (Ver. 2)

Ben C.,

Your disc is not bronzing. As Front 242 Addict states, early UK PDO made discs had this gold tint, and the discs are stable. I show the difference in this post:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threa...c-gold-colored-press-2cd.147702/#post-3447533

but you may find the whole (short) thread interesting on this topic of gold-tinted PDO discs.

 

Er, this disc might be an early UK PDO issue with gold tint, but not the blue paint characteristic of the early Virgin issues. I have a Genesis Abacab that is just a gold tinted disc like above. The problems at the UK PDO started 1-2 years after production began.

Black Elk beat me to the explanation.

 

Thanks! I actually don't have any CDs with this issue - I was actually really a bit timid before I ripped it, wondering what would happen.
So thanks again for the info - good to know

(later) - good read, and thanks again!
Yes, the front is that dark gold, and the back of the CD is almost 'normal' in comparison!

 

On the beautiful song Afterglow from wind and wuthering there is some strange loud sound, is it some noise or effect which is part of the music? 2:20-2;22 in the sentence :" Just to hear "

 

The original non remastered Virgin/Charisma CDs are soooo much better then later remasters! Especially the few titels that was released on the real Charisma before it was sold to Virgin.

 

I totally agree
just one example from many ; the beautiful/ Glorious solo guitar by Steve Hackett on supper's ready from 20:40 , on the original cds the sound is so open and alive and on the 94 remastered the sound is very close and dry with no air.

 

I just want to consolidate some info about Abacab into one post:

- Version 1: The V/C EMI Swindon is the same as the V/C PDO (96.7% - 86.8% - 84.2% - 83.7% - 89.6% - 98.6% - 82.4% - 93.8% - 91.6%). Total time is 47:10.960. Version 1 contains more audible music in the fade-outs than Versions 2 and 3.

- Version 3 should be reclassified as a re-EQd derivative of Version 2. They both stay in sync and have the same total time (46:41.800). The track start times didn't even have to be re-aligned between discs. I used a WG Target disc and a US WEA disc for the test. They sound similar listening to them side-by-side, but since the treble frequencies don't cancel out completely between discs, there is a minor EQ difference between Version 2 and Version 3. The quicker fade-outs of this mastering are close to my US LP, as opposed to the longer fade-outs of Version 1.

- The Vertigo 23PD-117 CD has peak levels of (91.1% - 85.5% - 83.5% - 78.7% - 92.2% - 91.6% - 50.2% - 84.1% - 90.0%) and a total time of 47:18.760. To me, it sounds like an analog copy of whatever source was used for Version 1. The total time and longer fade-outs are close between this and Version 1, and the sonic characteristics are similar. The dynamic range of this master is lower than Version 1's due to this presumably being a from a dubbed copy of the former. There is continuous audible hiss in between tracks, which is only faded in between Side 1 and Side 2. There is also print-through audible before the start of each track (except for of course "Abacab" and "Dodo/Lurker" as they start each side), usually occurring as the previous song is still fading out.

- My preference is Version 1 by a long shot.

 

I found another Version 3 copy of Foxtrot:

CASCD1058 51215G Manufactured By Sanyo Japan : 100.0% - 100.0% - 100.0% - 100.0% - 89.4% - 100.0%

2-page booklet, no lyrics.

Genesis - Foxtrot

 

I would like to take the opportunity to thank everyone who contributed to this thread; it was extremely helpful. At the start of the year, I had no Genesis CDs, and I was a bit bummed that most albums were no longer available in their original mixes as digital downloads. It had never occurred to me to look for used CDs until I read of people singing the praises of the earlier versions. Then I got the Japan for US Atco of A Trick of the Tail and fell down the rabbit hole from there. Since then I found a pre-remix version of every studio album from Trespass through Abacab, plus an early German version of Three Sides Live (for the studio tracks), and even a copy of Spot the Pigeon, all for pretty reasonable prices. I hit a couple duds along the way, but later replaced them with what I consider to be superior versions. Out of these, most are either V/Cs or Atlantics, with a couple DEs. The whole experience has also helped me regain an appreciation of non-lossy formats for other bands. Still, I'm not quite prepared to go the vinyl route - a little too high-maintenance of a format for my liking. CDs are fine with me, and it's astounding that they can frequently be had for cheaper than other formats (including just digital).

 

And I too have jumped on the V/C cd's after hearing some clips of them. I've scored Trespass last weekend and Foxtrot today
both from eBay sellers. My brother had the V/C Foxtrot back in the 80's but I've hardly any recollection of how it sounded
as a whole now. Trespass I'm particularly looking forward to hearing as I feel I've yet to have heard a proper version with
having copies of the U.S. MCA and the Definitive Crap version.

 

I've asked this before, but with no helpful response:
Is there a good sounding Genesis s/t out there?
I have a German target - shrill no bass.
And a Japan for US - cardboard drums and not engaging at all.

No, of course the original vinyl was no sonic masterpiece, but jeeze, there has to be a decent digital version out there. Maybe the 1990's reissue?

 

I'm afraid you don't like the production, to begin with.
Anyway: Nimbus or Swindon (should be the same mastering but with different levels); Vertigo (should be more or less the same - it syncs - but the disk has pre-emphasis).

I've heard one version that was really bad, like coming out of a cheap radio's speakers, maybe it was the target you mention or the first american mastering.
I've never heard of a revealing japanese mastering so I suppose Nimbus is as good as it gets. I lived decades with a Vertigo and nothing to complain about it.

NOTE: one Nimbus has very low levels (the one mentioned in the first page), another peaks at 100; I don't know if there are multiple Swindon but they shouldn't.
The very first Nimbus batch came without barcode, the following and the Swindon share the same.

 

Thanks for the info Windmill. I remember first hearing S/T on vinyl with a conical stylus and I think it may be the best way to hear it to this day! I was wondering if the 1992 remaster was worth checking out. Or is there a vinyl reissue?

 

It was never remastered. They stopped after Abacab.
In theory, all possible following represses (including Japanese ones) should be the same mastering of the Swindon/Uden; possibly, with some unnoticeable digital glitch / error added just because .
I never heard anything to disprove that, but it's not that people are dying to compare all possible versions of this album.

 

Well, I disagree. I think a good remaster would be great. I love Home By The Sea - at least on vinyl. And I loved it live. They used lights to, in my mind, looked like ghosts moving around the stage. And having lived on the ocean, high up on the cliffs, I can tell you that there's a wonderful, spooky experience sometimes at night. Noises that make no sense. A moon making thousands of diamonds in the ocean.

 

It seems to me you're disagreeing with something I never said.
I like it and grew up with it.
What I DID say is that there is not a remaster out there and that I never saw thorough comparisons between this album's masterings like it happens for hotter titles here. Statistically, it seems only a minority of Genesis fans here like it. That doesn't imply I agree with them.

 

So I may have something new to report. I have a V/C Trespass I bought on eBay. It appears to match Version 1 in this thread
but is an EMI Swindon. It sounds great to my ears however, there is a digital error on The Knife where there is silence.
It's very brief only lasting about 1 second and occurs at the very end of the track at exactly 8:47.

I had ripped the track to wav.in iTunes before even listening to it and thought maybe there was an error but
it happens while the disc itself is playing, and on every player I've tried it on. I then opened the wav file
in Pro Tools and sure enough it can be seen. The good news is that I was able to remove it and the file plays back fine
so there's no music data missing. It's a simple fix though and I have a new corrected file and a new disc can be burned
should I want to listen on a player. The disc has no scratches and is in perfect condition I might add.

Is this error present on all the V/C's? I don't recall it being mentioned in anywhere on the forums here before
unless I've missed it? I see the EMI Swindon isn't listed on the thread here, is it rare? or is it by chance no one else
here has a copy?

 

I don't have that one but haven't noticed the error mentioned in the threads yet.

 

So the second (or how long is it?) of silence is added, but not deleting the music?

Just listened to my vinyl rip for ya and yeah, that must really be annoying to experience at that point in the song.

 

Yes. It's about 1 second long and it's only added. It's seamless after deleting it out in the software. I checked it against my MCA disc to be sure.

 

It shouldn't be rare.
Ripping my Nimbus years ago, I remember Cue Tools offering me to "repair" the rip just at the end of the song. I did it without even thinking about it and I didn't find anything strange after that. Now, this might be completely unrelated, but it's funny anyway.

 

@Skyflash I know about this – I used to own a Swindon pressing with that gap near the end of The Knife; thought I'd gotten a defective disc. I replaced it with a Nimbus pressing – same mastering but no error... it's perfect. Get the Nimbus.

 

Thanks for confirming. I figured the Swindon would be the bad one of the lot. At the moment I'm not too concerned but I have
been OCD about stuff ;-) I'll look around eBay again later at some point. If I happen to see a Nimbus for a decent price
I'll grab it. Until then I have the wav file that I repaired to go with on my music server.

BTW I have personally declared this mastering to be my favorite for Trespass. It sounds more natural to my ears and the dynamics are great.
In fact, I'm finding as others have, that I prefer the V/C's for all of the Gabriel era albums. I've compared them to the Atlantics which
those versions sound okay, but I've found Nursery Crime and Foxtrot to have a somewhat brighter sound to them, especially NC.

 

The DADC doesn't have it either. And the CD looks cooler. Just sayin'

 

I've got a blind test for Trick going on if anyone wants to participate:

A Trick of the Tail - Blind Listening Test