Genesis' Foxtrot. What's the problem with the reissue?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by disraeli, Mar 3, 2015.

  1. disraeli

    disraeli Forum Resident Thread Starter

    New Jersey
    I love this album, always have. Only problem is that every original copy I pick up sounds worse than the one before.
    I took at shot at the recent 180 gram reissue and may I say ... WOW. This is what I've always wanted to hear.
    Dynamics, real bottom. Crisp cymbals.
    I love this pressing but I know many of you do not.
    Can you explain what the problem is with these reissues?
    Off to buy the 180g Selling England and Trespass.
    Thanks for your comments.
    keiron99 likes this.
  2. jon9091

    jon9091 Master Of Reality

    They are not the original mixes. That bothers some people...others don't mind.
  3. SoporJoe

    SoporJoe Top 5 Reviewer

    British Columbia
    I'm the only person in the world that prefers the Definitive Edition CD over all others.
  4. Gary7704

    Gary7704 Jesus saves, Esposito scores on the rebound.

    Estero Florida
    Reissue (Classic Records) sounds great.
    Blows the original out of the water.
    Same with The Lamb.
    ultron9 likes this.
  5. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Forum Resident

    Brooklyn New York
    I have a single sleeve 70's Dutch pressing that sounds great imo with minimal surface noise even though it's visually VG+. I'd grab a NM copy in a flash if I saw one. They're not expensive at all.
  6. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Canton, NY, USA
    My biggest problem with the remixed vinyl is that it sound clinical to me on my system. For Foxtrot, my main vinyl copy happens to be a UK first pressing, which can be a bit on the pricy side. However, it sounds much more "real" and organic to me than the remix (which I also have as part of the vinyl boxed set). In comparison, the remix seems to have "smiley-faced" EQ. That might sound better than the original on some systems, but on mine, it doesn't.
    sound chaser likes this.
  7. I like the original for mastering but I don't think the Definitive Edition is bad...the former just sounds warmer to my ears. There was a thread where folks were bashing the Definitive Editions and it is, really, a case-by-case basis for the titles. For example, there are those that prefer the original U.S. mastering Barry did for "Duke" feeling that the vocals are even less emphazied than on the original CD. I personally don't think it's bad at all. I don't care for the remixes all that much although a couple of early ones sound quite good.
  8. Jeffczar

    Jeffczar Well-Known Member

    Milwaukee, WI
    Not quite, I think that also. Bought the new vinyl issue hoping the remaster wasn't as compressed as the SACDs. It seems a bit better but still way too much compression for me. I think the definitive edition CDs were pretty much the best overall issues for all of the Genesis albums.
  9. disraeli

    disraeli Forum Resident Thread Starter

    New Jersey
    How is Foxtrot on Classic Records?

    Good bottom end? Dynamic?
    ultron9 likes this.
  10. Tullman

    Tullman I prefer analog

    Boston MA
    I think Foxtrot on Classic Records sounds great. Good bottom end and is dynamic. The vinyl could be noisy. My copy was good with only a few crackles.
    ultron9 likes this.
  11. pinkrudy

    pinkrudy Forum Resident

    when i got the lamb remix vinyl reissue. i loved it.
    i then bought nursery cryme,foxtrot,selling happy with all of them...some required some eq tweaking though.
  12. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Canton, NY, USA
    I've only heard needle-drops of this, but based on that, what you think of the Classic version would depend on whether you like a more pronounced top end, which the needledrop certainly seemed to have. It is dynamic, and will most likely either sound very detailed or very clinical, depending on your system and preferences.
  13. Diablo Griffin

    Diablo Griffin Synthpop, City Pop, and Rock Enthusiast

    United States
    I kinda like the DE of Foxtrot myself. The slightly increased high-end does make some sections (particularly the opening of Get 'Em Out By Friday) sound nice in a different way to the V/C and Zal's Atlantic CDs, but the noise reduction does ruin Watcher of the Skies for me. I don't hate the DEs as much as most others here, and I feel that they're rather decent on their own. I like to think of the DEs as "stepping stones to greatness", or nice placeholders until you buy the V/Cs or early Atlantics.
    hi_watt likes this.
  14. OneStepBeyond

    OneStepBeyond Temporarily mothballed..

    Leicester, UK.
    I sold my DE of Foxtrot to a friend and he's very happy with it - I wanted the 1980s Virgin/Charisma CD issue back in my collection (it got stolen from me in the 90s) and it's quite hissy in parts but that's never bothered me in the slightest... I was always fine with it and it's my preferred version.

    I am worried that if I were to say what I couldn't/wouldn't tolerate about the DE of this (I have a few other Genesis DEs by the way and have little or no issues with them) I could open a can of worms and have people inspecting their existing discs (not just Genesis) and not being satisfied anymore with what they are happy with! It's always case by case anyway and I fully go with the saying 'trust your ears' because I've got plenty of albums that people would say are the worst versions out there but with nothing to compare them to, it's not a worry to me. So, that's out of the way! :D

    I've read many reports that the clarity of the remix LP is possibly the best presentation of the music and what has upset some (again, like me) is the compression and limiting added to the remixes... much moreso on the CD versions. I have three of the remixed ones and for me, they range from mostly abysmal to pretty good - those being the earlier, Peter Gabriel releases and the one I like the sound of best is Selling England By The Pound. Yes, there are always going to be varying differences in a piece of music that's had a later re-mix and they can be fairly minor sometimes - I would say this is true of the 2008 Foxtrot as I heard a needledrop and was quite impressed. I've not heard the CD of it. I think I'll get a vinyl pressing of this later issue of Foxtrot sometime, as I would get any favourite albums put out in both mono and stereo. :)
  15. vinyl diehard

    vinyl diehard Two-Channel Forever

    But yet the Steven Wilson remixes of the Jethro Tull albums get great reviews, with some folks saying its the best they've sounded. Strange the difference in opinions.
    Has anyone in Genesis made any comments on the new mixes?
  16. box of frogs

    box of frogs Forum Resident

    Lincolnshire, UK
    Well, Tony Banks approved them, and I believe that the others had input. I too think SEBTP (and Trespass) are the best of the 2007 remixes on vinyl. The Lamb is good in parts, but my go-to is the original UK vinyl. By all accounts the 5:1 mixes on SACD are approved of, but I don't have a 5:1 system so can't comment.

    I'm probably not the only one here who would love Steven Wilson to be allowed a crack at the multi track tape: I love what he achieved with some of the King Crimson, Yes, Caravan and Tull releases.
  17. Tristero

    Tristero Forum Resident

    At least Wilson generally includes needledrops of the original mixes with his packages. I wish that Genesis had demonstrated the same consideration with their box sets. I scooped those up when I first got my 5.1 system together and I find the surround mixes to be generally listenable, though not ideal. I don't care for the stereo mixes much at all and the mastering is quite harsh. I'd really like to get back to the originals at this point, but I don't feel like making a big investment on it. I doubt that Tony Banks' pride would allow him to let Wilson have another crack at these classics. . .
    CybrKhatru and sound chaser like this.
  18. box of frogs

    box of frogs Forum Resident

    Lincolnshire, UK
    Sadly I agree. I once saw a pig fly though...
    klockwerk likes this.
  19. ThePostElectroGranger

    ThePostElectroGranger Forum Resident

    its a reissue of a dollar bin album
  20. gillcup

    gillcup Senior Member

    Raleigh, NC, USA
    That's pretty much how I feel. I could never find a quiet original copy of any early Genesis. I bought the new remix versions and they are very quiet and I like the mixes. It reminds me of the King Crimson remixes by Steven Wilson. I do still have the Classic Records versions if I want to listen to the original mixes, but I like the new versions.
  21. Ben Adams

    Ben Adams Forum Resident

    Phoenix, AZ, USA
    I love the new remixed pressing of SEBTP and plan on getting Foxtrot next (even though I miraculously have a NM original US pressing).

    Good set of reviews of the remixes here:
    Shak Cohen likes this.
  22. danielbravo

    danielbravo Forum Resident

    Caracas. DC
    The 2007 mix from Trespass is pretty good. I must say that form the whole package is the best along with "The Lamb Lise Down On Broadway".
    Kim Olesen likes this.
  23. danielbravo

    danielbravo Forum Resident

    Caracas. DC
    Thanks for the link !
  24. Redhat220

    Redhat220 Well-Known Member

    There's a huge Genesis thread on here. The 85 Virgin/Charisma versions are preferred by most people. I have Foxtrot through Abacab of those versions, the only one that is slightly lacking is Wind And Wuthering. The rest sound very good. The DE's are no-noised, and anything released after them is just more of the same compressed "modern" mastering.
    Dodoz likes this.
  25. davenav

    davenav High Plain Grifter

    Brooklyn, USA
    I think I remember reading that Peter Gabriel was not pleased with the sound of the remixes, and made them redo the albums that he's on.

    Coincidentally, those are the most listenable ones.

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