Genesis - Round 10 - Least favorite Studio Album poll

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Rfreeman, Feb 10, 2019.

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  1. BarryChicago

    BarryChicago A Flower

    Location:
    Michigan
    It's gonna be Trick of The Tail for me, but all three of those albums are some of their strongest IMO.
     
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  2. riskylogic

    riskylogic Forum Resident

    The nurse will tell you lies, just saying.
     
  3. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    Selling England by the Pound and A Trick of the Tail are my two favorite pre-80s Genesis albums.

    Re the discussion question, I would have been fine with Chester and Darryl playing on some Genesis studio recordings, although I wouldn't have wanted only Chester playing drums as long as Phil is around. It would have been cool if they'd done some stuff in the studio with both of them playing that could only be done by two drummers or via overdubs otherwise. I'm a fan of percussion parts that can't be played by just one person in real time. I like when multiple drummers/percussionists approach their work a la what Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew did on guitar when both were in King Crimson.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  4. Runicen

    Runicen Forum Resident

    I had to vote Foxtrot, but not because I dislike the album. It's just the album I like the least of the three great albums in the list. Selling England still sounds like nothing else going and Trick of the Tail is an excellent album from start to finish, so I can't give that one the boot.
     
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  5. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    That's not really true, it's just in the case of Supper's Ready it's studio cut has poor production and a lot of it's energy really is heightened in it's live versions. If you compare with a single live cut, I sort of get it. But when there's so many versions, including with Peter that are just as good it's easy to devalue Foxtrot as a whole honestly.
     
  6. Say

    Say Forum Resident

    I'm voting for Calling All Stations :cool:

    Ok, now that I got that out of the way... Get the Trick outta here! Maybe the eighties over did it for me... listening to Phil Collins...meh. I'd rather scratch a chalk board.

    The band should have hired Chester and Darryl to play on albums and become part of the band. Instead we got - And The There Were Three. Maybe the gang wanted all songwriting to themselves or maybe they didn't want to have their ego's threatened by giving, potentially, two new band members a say in the direction of the music. Anyway, liked Darryl better as a fill in with Jean Luc Ponty. He is no Steve Hackett.
     
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  7. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    I know they are much disparaged here, but I think the 5.1 remixes of Trespass, Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot really do a great favor to these three albums, pulling back the curtains and murk that coated the originals. Sure this is revisionism as they sound nothing like the LPs. But if revisionism means I can clearly hear the instruments and vocals instead of the surface noise and hiss, that is fine with me.

    P.S. if anyone wants to replace the Mellotron tracks with pristine recordings of strings and choirs, I will buy them yet again. I understand why Mellotrons were used live when that was the closest thing there was to a sampler, but except when they are used for special effects it always struck me as cheaping out to use them in the studio where they are being used to fill in sounds of acoustic instruments and voices.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  8. Dr. Mudd

    Dr. Mudd Audient

    I voted Trick, their worst album up to that time.
     
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  9. riskylogic

    riskylogic Forum Resident

    Well, there are the Steve Hackett Genesis Revisited albums. Nothing from Trespass, but...

    Nursery Cryme:
    1. Musical Box (from II)
    2. For Absent Friends (from I)
    3. Return of the Giant Hogweed (from II)
    7. The Fountain of Salamacis (from I)

    Foxtrot:
    1. Watcher of the Skies (from I)
    5. Horizons (from II)
    6. Supper's ready (from II)
     
  10. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    They had a great drummer (Phil Collins) so, in principle, they didn't need another.

    As for adding another guitar player to replace Hackett, perhaps it could have added some additional spice to the mix.
     
  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    Yea And Then There Were Three a fantastic album
     
  12. supersquonk

    supersquonk Forum Resident

    Oh wow. Respectfully disagree on both! :) The Nick Davis stuff is really compressed. No dynamics. Headache inducing! Search out quality pressings of the vinyl and listen on a good system. Perhaps an exception could be made for Trespass.

    The sound of the mellotron is one of my favorite things about Genesis. It has its own eerie voice. Been put to good use later on by bands like XTC and Radiohead too. :righton:
     
  13. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Have you heard remixes in 5.1?
    I noted Mellotron can be good when used as an effect. When used in particular to replace choirs though (see Salmacis) I find it just sounds like a bad recording of singers.
     
  14. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Sure... replace the Mellotron. And while you're at it, redo the vocals so you can understand them better... remix the bass to make it more prominent...

    All those things may make for a more enjoyable listen - or they may not - but it would no longer be the album we are discussing, it would be another entity. I say leave it alone and judge it as presented, on its merits.
     
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  15. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    If Genesis had a real orchestra on Trespass, Nursery Cryme, and Foxtrot it'd be like listening to... Moody Blues meets Renaissance meets some heavy soloing every now and then. Oh god please no, now if we talk about From Genesis to Revelation with Mellotrons... then we'd really have a psych pop classic.
     
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  16. Rfreeman

    Rfreeman Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Lawrenceville, NJ
    Trespass was largely piano and organ, not fake instruments or fake singers. One reason it is my fav.
     
  17. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    I love it too. But, like if you take out the Mellotron and Pianet from Stagnation... well, you kill that song. I think Tony was a really tasteful player of the thing, honestly.
     
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  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    I think this whole mellotron debate may be missing the fact that it was a reasonably new instrument. Whether guitar bass keyboards or drums we all like to experiment with a new instrument.
    I don't think the idea was to have an orchestra or singers. The idea was to get some cool sounds out of a new machine.
    Whether someone likes the sound of that machine or not is a completely different matter.
    When the first guitar synths came out (aside from some lag issues) guys that used them were frowned upon as turning to the opposition (one would assume the keyboard player) ........
    Think about how silly that is in real terms lol

    Anyhow the mellotron sounded cool to me, and I didn't really consider it as a cheap replacement for an orchestra, but an interesting new toy
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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  19. Rufus rag

    Rufus rag Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    SEBtP . Too much filler
     
  20. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Real keyboardists would have stuck loyally to the harpsichord. Those new-fangled piano thingies were a cop-out.
     
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  21. NorthNY Mark

    NorthNY Mark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canton, NY, USA
    I love the sound of the mellotron--in particular, the way its speed varies gives everything a kind of uncanny sound, as if unearthed from some long lost recording. While I tend to like it in almost all contexts, it seems especially appropriate for Genesis, as the songwriting (at least in their pre-trio days) tends to evoke a kind of "pastness" lodged somewhere in our unconsciouses.

    This gets to a larger question about production and remixing. What many people complain about regarding the production of Trespass through Foxtrot is something I enjoy: the sensation that the albums are rediscovered relics from some not-quite-definable past (oscillating between the medieval and Victorian eras). This is also the case for me with pre-'80s King Crimson albums, which is probably why I strongly dislike the contemporary remixing done to all of them--greater clarity and separation is not my goal in listening to these particualr albums (though I do want the original mixes presented in the highest possible fidelity to what they are). The Yes, remixes, on the other hand, I tend to enjoy a lot more.

    That said, I also like the more balanced sound of the David Hentschel productions, which to my ears combine much of the nostalgic quality of the earlier stuff with a subtly balanced increase in clarity and dynamics, especially with A Trick of the Tail, which remains my favorite Genesis album overall, followed closely by Trespass and Foxtrot. I reluctantly voted to drop Selling England in this round (knowing that the voting won't go that way) for reasons others have already articulated: despite amazing tracks like "Firth of Fifth" and "Cinema Show" (and, for me, "After the Ordeal"), it's also weighed down by some weaker (IMHO) tracks like "Epping Forest," "I Know What I Like," and "More Fool Me." The other two albums are more consistently great, in my estimation.
     
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  22. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    The thing with me, is my least favorite song on Selling England by The Pound is probably Firth of Fifth.

    I guess I heard it too much, but I don't know. Was nailed into me when I heard the solo in person by the man himself and was like "that was pretty nice" - maybe it's the fact that outside the solo, it sort of just is there. And maybe it has to do with being exposed to solo Hackett that I can easily say it's not his best solo, and that has it of a lower importance.
     
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  23. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    The album thread gave me a much greater appreciation of what a great album that is. I went from being a little ho hum about Epping Forrest, to it being among my favourite tracks
     
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  24. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    I think it might have to do with the early obsession with certain songs - I never really attached to Epping Forest moons ago, but then again I still love More Fool Me as much as yesterday.
     
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  25. ries

    ries Forum Resident

    It was never intended to "replace choirs", synths and keyboards like the mellotron have their own unique textures. If you're thinking of replacing those with real strings and choirs you're not improving any song, unless you're a fan of those dreadful "Symphonic Genesis" cd's.
     
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