Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I wandered lonely as a cloud is the first verse of a William Wordsworth's poem.
    (I was studying English Romanticism at the same time I got to first listen to The Lamb. Easy catch back then)

    Quote or steal? (I'm jokin', Pete).

    It's a wild ironic use 'cause what follows has nothing romantic to it; actually the Slippermen are pretty gross and they became like that because of "tasting love".
    Brilliant.

    The opening world music-ish bit is mostly Steve's, Tony helped him "as much as he could" (!) and was called Chinese Jam.
    Banks: I don't know why we didn't give it a title, we could have, actually.

    Tony as usual dismisses the lyrics ( -_- ) and says that what he plays in Arrival is similar to a Manic Street Preachers' song.
    He also thinks drums are too complex and should be simpler (gee...) and he wishes he could have had a better synth sound to use.
    The Doktor's solo was made "separately", the Three Man improvising around.
    The part immediately before Raven [4'02"] comes from The Light (as someone had already spotted).

    Finally, Tony thinks the transition that leads to the verse's reprise is one of their worst chord changes. "Really terrible, I'd change it if I could".
    Which I find funny because I always found it exciting. Impredictable, abrupt, but efficient and fun.

    Musically, I think is a very good track overall. The switch of moods keeps it fresh, Pete's usual theatrical delivery is top notch, there's fun balance between sang and instrumental parts. Lyrics are playful and fun, and the visionary concept of the slippermen brilliant.

    And it's confirmed: Brother John's voice is Phil.

    Random question. Why doktor with the K? Is it for the German accent?

    -

    Now my babblings.
    (I'm gonna slightly anticipate the discussion on the remaining songs - sorry - but for the sake of an overall view)

    Looking at Mark's linked pics with the lyrics made me realize how narratively unbalanced side 4 is.
    - Slippermen - In a symmetrical sequencing respect Side 2, here the complex, multi-section "prog" track is the opener: it's not a suite of snippets put together for convenience but a proper organically built "prog" song with, at most, a detachable intro. All the following are simpler.
    This song might not be overly long (even though is well above the average) yet it covers in one shot three different chapters of the story, which are both dramatically important (at least the first 2). It's a tremendous acceleration in pacing, even more so considering it is preceded by the "space" of Silent Sorrow and the fake start itself (that can act as a sonic visualization of the slippermen unsteadily walking towards Rael or just the colony approaching from his p.o.v.). But...
    - Ravine immediately stops the run with another meditative moment. It's justified, Rael must feel very down and emptied by this point, deprived of his masculinity and yer again betrayed by his brother's selfishness, and the track is an accompaniment to his desolate walk before he sees the window. So, ok, I'll take it.
    - Light Dies Down does what it has to do, average album pace. But then...
    - Scree / Rapids. Two entire songs right near the ending (while not that long) to narrate some quick events that might have literally have taken few minutes to happen in real time and are not that relevant narratively. It's a dilation of the narrative flow's exactly where it is supposed to wrap up and move steadily.
    The decision of saving his brother and renouncing the shortcut to his old life (the previous big turning point) happens in the previous song, and nothing is really fundamental here until the face swapping happens, at the very end (the last big turning point).
    Lyrics are more simpler and straightforward, no weirdness, no imagery, no mythology... cause there's actually very little to tell more than "Rael rushes to save his brother, jumps in the water, grabs the body". And finally...
    - IT. Where absolutely NOTHING happens, total, complete, annihilating stop in the narrative flow. And it's the closing song ffs! ( :D ).
    The song is just one pun after one another and as such it goes on a little too long.
    In fact, the story ends pretty much like this, abruptly, and we have a song expanding in several minutes what could be resumed in one line.
    It's like the movie ends with Rapids (an open ending nonetheless - but it's ok in supernatural movies ad this sort of is); and what we have here are the ending credits. To which usually people leaves the theater, though, while we're left sitting and listening trying to make sense of it.

    So overall, the narrative pacing of this side is a little patched up and has a couple hiccups, while musically it all starts very strong but then proceeds unevenly to an anticlimactic ending (Lights and Rapids still remaining beautiful songs).

    I (I believe "we") still love the album for it's adventurous journey but this time I side with Tony (even though for completely different reasons) in saying that maybe this side "could have been better" .

    --

    :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
     
  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  4. MicSmith

    MicSmith Forum Resident

    Time is against me to say all I need to say about The Lamb But this for me is Genesis finest album and tour. Yes it’s not as classy as the best bits of the three preceding albums but as an overall package it’s the best thing that group of musicians would ever produce. I strongly disagree with Banks’ dismissive attitude towards the story. It’s a fantasy and in that level it works perfectly.

    When I tell people about the hours I spent in my bedroom listening to albums and digesting every notepad the music, each line of the lyrics and every square inch of the sleeve, this is the album I think about.

    I first heard it from a borrowed copy early in 1975 and struggled to get into all of it as it sounded unlike the Genesis I had grown to know in 1974 but I got my own copy for my 14th birthday in Feb 1976 and got to appreciate it a lot more and it quickly became my favourite album by anyone for a number of years.

    I think it was right that Gabriel abandoned ship after this album and during the supporting tour but at the time I heard the news I was stunned. But it was the right thing for both parties.

    But to end I’d like to flag up The Lamia, Carpet Crawlers, Slippermen, the title track and Anyway as my favourite Lamb tracks. But it hangs together very well as a double album and I personally would t change a second if it. Not One.
     
  5. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
    ️️
    Steve's interest for Eastern/Middle-Eastern folk music permeated his whole solo career, but it seems that that particular interest began even earlier.
     
  6. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
    ️️
    I agree. And, besides all that, Phil did a remarkable, essential drumming work on this track. He couldn't help but giving special colours to the several time signature changes that permeate this such a freaking dynamic song, I reckon one have to be an actually GREAT drummer to accomplish that.
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I should have mentioned Phil.
    To me it goes without saying that he is an all class top flight drummer, and it is rare that his contributions don't enhance, and sometimes even make the tracks what they are.
     
  8. That's The Musical box tribute band and not Genesis. Eerie isn't it?
     
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Apologies, it said it was Genesis ... i couldnt tell if it was mike or not
     
  10. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    Nice. I will check it out.
     
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  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Ravine
    "He follows a small path running along the top, and watches the tube
    Bobbing up and down in the water as the fast current carries it away."

    So Rael has run after his removed appendage and has found himself in a ravine.
    This is a very short atmospheric piece and although probably not a song one would pick to listen to individually, it certainly is part of the narrative in terms of being a natural reaction/reflection on the events we have just encountered.
     
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  12. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    Ravine is another ambient piece similar to The Arrival but I like it much more. Where The Arrival seemed like a pointless intro, Ravine actually interests me. Tony's synth plays an important role here - reminding me of things like Tangerine Dream. Very atmospheric and effective.
     
  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    The Light Dies Down On Broadway
    Here we have a dual musical reprise of the Lamia and the title track. The melody of the Lamia gives this a sorrowful, reflective sound and feel. Obviously the tempo is slower than the title track in fitting with the Lamia melody.
    This is one of the most poignant lyrics on the album really (funnily enough not written by Gabriel) We have Rael being beckoned towards his home by a light of some description, but sees his brother John screaming for help in the rapids. He knows that if he helps John he will miss his opportunity to return to his home and out of the nightmare he is currently in. We have a moral dilemma. He chooses to rescue his brother and loses his chance to leave this strange world he is currently in.
    I am left wondering if John ends up being not so much a person as a marker for something else. John seems to be a distraction in this story and never really participate in the story so much as distract Rael from what is going on. There are all sorts of things that this could be interpreted as ... and for now, I will leave it at that.
     
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  14. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    The biggest tell (from a distance) is that The Musical Box's "Rutherford" plays left-handed! And had his double-neck guitar custom-built for the job.
     
  15. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    The melody of The Lamia was too good to use it only once!

    Re the significance of John - I have decided that John does not represent a particular person, but instead represents the rest of humanity. I believe Gabriel chose the name John deliberately; it's one of the most common male names, and therefore could be interpreted as "everyman". He is Rael's "brother" only in the sense that we metaphorically refer to other people, including strangers, as our "brothers and sisters". The parallel with the Christian message - and quite possibly other religions too, but that's the one I am most familiar with - is so strong that the more I study this narrative, the more I am convinced that it's a message about finding yourself by losing yourself, i.e. by taking responsibility for the welfare of others.

    Which would you rather listen to, Peter Gabriel singing this message cloaked in a storyline full of metaphors from mythology and American pop culture, or some Christian artist singing "Brother, love your fellow man and worship the Lorrrrrrd."? I know which I would prefer.
     
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  16. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I figured it was a reversed negative ... oh well :)
     
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  17. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I tend to agree with this, and take message two
     
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  18. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    It hardly matters who the actual person is under that costumery. :D It's a man playing a man playing a Slipperman.
     
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  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I hope nobody minds me doing the two tracks today, it just felt like Ravine is a very short and not too complicated piece and Light Dies Down is a reprise of sorts, and in my mind the lyrics in Light are probably the biggest talking point here.
    Anyhow, happy dissecting :)
     
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  20. tmwlng

    tmwlng Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denmark
    Never even thought of the Lamia bit in The Light Dies Down on Broadway... But it makes a lot of sense now. Again, cohesion is key for this album. Beautiful melodies and a heavy concept can easily go hand in hand.
     
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  21. MikeF63

    MikeF63 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Derbyshire, UK
    Something else I missed until I played it a few times is that Banks' playout solo that goes into Scree is the melody of Hairless Heart.
     
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Nice one
     
  23. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    The Light Dies Down is a lovely track. Have always found myself lingering on it and going back for seconds when I listen to the album. Has a certain resigned wistful feel to it.

    But back to Slippermen for a moment. Anyone else lament the dropping of the castration sound from the remix version at 4:15? Seems like an odd thing for a guy to miss, I know :) but I can’t help but wonder...if they didn’t have that sound available from the master tapes, would it have been that difficult to recreate something very similar? Or would it have been too conspicuous if not a perfect recreation? Ultimately not a huge point, I guess.
     
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  24. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    "The Light Dies Down..." feels a bit like a one-time joke to me.

    It is a very well constructed merging of the two songs but, once the surprise effect is worn out, it becomes a little dull.

    As for the lyrics, after 3-plus sides of obscure lyrics full of evocative imagery, we get some pretty straight (and dull) explanation of how the story is moving forward.

    I read somewhere that Banks and Rutherford wrote the lyrics to this one, as they were trying to meet deadlines to finish the record, but it really doesn't measure up to the standards of the rest of the lyrics.

    In short, a pleasant but absolutely non essential song.
     
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  25. AidanB

    AidanB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    I love Light Lies Down. Even though the lyrics are Banks/Rutherford, they’re actually pretty good, and that “Hey John!” part has a bit of emotional weight to it.
     
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