Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    I know, but still it doesn't seem right to bury the guitars like that.
    Steve does a simple but nice work on "Mad Man Moon" yet you have to listen real close otherwise it's like he didn't make it to the studio that day.
    Same for "Robbery, Assault And Battery". Feels like he arrived late in the studio, in time to record just the final solo.
     
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  2. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Oh, I didn't notice that we were on A Trick Of The Tail.
    Well, right now I think it's their best album - the band wanted top prove they could make it without Gabriel and they succeeded.
    Collins still was prog here and the same year he made a kinda twin album in Brand X with Unorthodox Behaviour.
    In a way ATotT is like a follow up to SEbtP, they both have a very warm feel.
    Best sounding CD by far is the original Charisma edition: Genesis - A Trick Of The Tail
    Stay away from the remix that is so compressed it is distorted in places, the crescendo on Entangled is ruined. A complete disaster!
    To sum it up; it's a masterpiece, not a weak moment!
    It's also their best sounding album, IMO they never before or after reached that sonic standard.
     
  3. DMGuy

    DMGuy Forum Resident

    A Trick of the Tail was my introduction to Genesis. First the title song, then the album.

    I first heard it in 1976 on WBBM-FM in Chicago, really liked the title track....had never heard of the band. I was more of a top-40 guy back in those days, slowly branching out. I mentioned to a co-worker that I really like this song, and he loaned me the album. First time through, I had no idea what to think; I had never heard anything remotely like it. But, there was something that made me want to listen again....and again.....and again, etc. By about the 10th listen, I was hooked. Still one of my favorite Genesis albums. You know what they say, you never forget your first time.

    Highlights to me are Entangled, Squonk, Ripples, Trick of the Tail and Los Endos. Dance on a Volcano has some great parts, but overall I don't love it (which is true of most songs that Mike wrote...I've always much preferred Tony's writing). Robbery has some great instrumentals, but the vocal parts of the song are lacking. Mad Man Moon was a song I loved way back then, still like it, but when I discovered some of their other gems, it just doesn't stand up as well. I don't know how many hundreds of times I listened to the album before I realized that some of those mournful synthesizer sounds in the instrumental of Ripples were actually guitar.
     
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  4. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    Never answered the question

    When I first heard it - when I was 16 in early 2013
    Where do I put it - number 1 album full stop
    How do I feel about it - not played too much due to live bootlegs. I still feel like it's super consistent.
     
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  5. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I think often times people seem to forget how many songs Collins had already sung on. Almost always there, even if not high in the mix. So it really shouldn't come as any surprise that he slotted into the vocals virtually without even being noticed as very different.
     
  6. SRC

    SRC That sums up Squatter for me

    Location:
    New York, NY
    A Trick of The Tail strikes me as a great record in terms of compositions and instrumental playing, and Phil's singing is great, but for me there's a relative lack of mystery to it; lyrically I think it struggles a bit, as some of the more odd lyrics previously seemed more believable coming from the more alien and inscrutable Gabriel. Collins always sounds more believable when his lyrics are more down to earth (as they would become permanently, later on.) But I'm very, very fond of the record for what it is, it is something of a musical miracle that they were able to come back from PG's departure with a very strong album like this.
     
  7. Joe McKee

    Joe McKee Forum Resident

    Location:
    Connecticut
    I first heard A Trick of the Tail in the fall of 1987 - a friend at the time would always play Squonk when I came to visit during her college radio show. Figuring she must really like the album, I gave her the LP for Christmas. I found out she wasn't particularly a fan - she was playing it 'cause she knew I liked some newer Genesis and it gave us a chance to talk. Either way - it was the gateway from the Genesis/Invisible Touch albums to the proggier Genesis sound and started my exploration of prog in general.

    For a long time this was my favorite album by the band. These days favorite seems to be whatever I have listened to most recently from the four/five man eras but this one has a special place. (I have nothing against the three man era - as we've discussed some amazing pieces during the five man era were the work of the three and I find great moments on all their albums.)

    I think they were more adventurous on some of the earlier albums but find this one very well written and played. Robbert, Assault, and Battery is meh lyrically but the music is excellent. A Trick of the Tail makes total sense when you learn that it was something Tony wrote years earlier - not a favorite but a part of the whole.
     
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  8. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Just a question, being too young to have been a fan in 1976 - were Genesis, Tull and Yes about the same degree of popularity in 1976-77? I know that Tull and Yes were more popular earlier in the decade, but Genesis really started to gain fans during these years, and the other two bands' most popular days (of the 1970s) were already behind them. Thoughts from anyone who was there?
     
  9. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    "A Trick of the Tail" is brilliant. It's their "prog Beatles" record, in the sense that the music is both sophisticated but accessible, full of strong melodies and hooks. The lyrics are good but clearly, is the area where Gabriel's input is more obviously missed.

    Collins' vocals are very good, providing a sense of continuity without falling into cheap outright imitation of Gabriel.

    The fact that Genesis actually managed to survive Gabriel's departure is almost a miracle.
     
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  10. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    I hadn't read the most recent comments yet, so I missed yours and thus made a similar and rather redundant comment. Couldn't agree more.
     
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  11. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I would be interested in that too. I came to Genesis around 81, about 13 via Nursery Cryme and And Then There Were Three ... so I have no frame of reference for 76-77, I just listened to what people around me were playing at that time.
     
  12. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    Yes, they were, at least for me and my friends - they were all in our top eschelon. Yes and Tull had already been playing arenas and stadiums for while by that time. I guess Genesis was a notch below, as they were just graduating from large theaters to arenas in the southern California area around the time of TotT. But they were gaining fast.
     
  13. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    I like many things about Trick of the Tale. The recorded sound is very nice, Phil C had not yet gone full ham and his drumming is excellent, there are some great mellotron sounds, while I wish Hackett was more prominent his playing is very tasteful. There are a few excellent songs and a couple that annoy me. All in all it's a good recovery from Gabriel's departure and a signpost toward their increasing commercial direction that doesn't leave the fans of their more experimental work completely in the dust. Still, it all feels to me a bit shallower and less satisfying than previously.
     
  14. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    It depends on the country.
    They were big in Italy years before Pete left.
    In England it took a little while but they became an UK Top 10 band towards 1973, here in Brazil they played 5 or 6 sold out gigs in 1977 during the Wind And Wuthering tour, and in the US they were filling up arenas around the same time, though their first US hit didn't come until 1980 ("Misunderstanding"), so it's complicated to tell exactly when it happened.
    By the way I was born in 1981 so I'm just guessing...
     
  15. Tristero

    Tristero In possession of the future tense

    Location:
    MI
    I got into Trick of the Tail in my teens, during early to mid 80s, along with the rest of their back catalog. We had it on cassette and even 8-track for the car! I always considered it to be a very strong album, more consistent though not quite hitting the stellar heights of the Gabriel days. The music is as great as ever, but I don't feel as much of a personal connection with the material in comparison to its predecessor. Still, it was a triumph for them under the circumstances, giving them a new lease on life at a crucial juncture and paving the way for future success. As The_Windmill suggests, this album seems to consolidate past strengths while introducing new angles. Phil was a natural choice for lead singer, though it took him a little while to find his own distinct voice. I always think of this and Wind & Wuthering as being sibling releases. Trick is spring and summer, while W&W is fall and winter.

    It's been a while since I revisited this one, since I sometimes prefer to go for the live recordings from this era (both with Bill and later Chester), but I'll have to give it another spin soon. I wouldn't really say my opinion of it has changed that much over the years.
     
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  16. prudence2001

    prudence2001 Forum Resident

    I find it interesting that The Lamia also ends with a similar line where Gabriel tosses the story line out to the audience ("The lights are dimmed and once again the stage is set for you"). Does Gabriel mean that we are all Rael?

    Nearly every track of the album is told from Rael's first person point of view, except a couple of lines in the first track, and in The Lamia ("Rael stands astonished doubting his sight"), and finally in it where the song appears to be addressed directly at you/us, the audience, again. Conversely, the entire Rael story on the interior of the LP gatefold is told in the third person, with the narrator (perhaps Peter himself) telling the story. Is there some significance to this switching of points of view? Maybe not, but I think it does make it confusing and difficult to analyse what's Gabriel intended to say with his epic story.

    Or perhaps there isn't much meaning to the whole thing and The Lamb rather fails as an ambitious final project for the original five. I try not to think too much about it, as I just love listening to the whole thing straight through. After all, it's over to each of us to come up with our own interpretations, which we've been doing here for the past few weeks.

    "If you think that it's pretentious, you've been taken for a ride."
     
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  17. gabbleratchet7

    gabbleratchet7 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I first picked up ATotT as a CD (original Atco) in the late 1980s. It sounded so good that I think that was the very moment I became an audiophile. I still scratch my head at how the same band and producer somehow also did Duke, which sounded so tinny and thin whereas Trick is so lush and full.

    Sonics aside, this is also a top-tier Genesis album for me. The playing and songwriting are mature and confident. First album where the drums are given their rightful prominence in the mix.

    I think the only possible criticism is Collins’ vocals, and that is only with hindsight: the vocals are fine, but he became a better lead singer over time. I never bought into the “Phil sounds more like than Peter” trope that came with this album. I think it is more like Phil’s lead vocals here simply reminded people of his harmony and backing vocals on previous albums.

    Count me in the camp that holds that the album is better off for having left It’s Yourself off.
     
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  18. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    No - "...once again the stage is set for..." the Lamia, who regenerate each time - as mentioned in the story, and why there are so many Slippermen to meet him in the Colony.
     
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  19. AidanB

    AidanB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    What do I think of this album? I think it’s very good, if a bit of a step down from the previous three albums. I think they were playing it a little safe after the departure of Peter Gabriel, and looking at how their style would develop in the next two albums, I’d say that it served this album well, as I don’t think those two albums are very good, but that’s for another day. I would say this is my favorite Phil Collins era album, though certainly far from the only good, or even great album. This was the last great full-on prog album Genesis would make, and in my opinion the last great album they would release until Duke 4 years later.

    When did I first hear it? As previously mentioned, my dad bought me this LP for Christmas a few years back, and I enjoyed quite a bit.

    Has my opinion changed? Yes. But not too much. I used to call it a five star album, but I wouldn’t quite go that far anymore just due to a few overall problems I have with the album.
     
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  20. AidanB

    AidanB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Also, on the subject of best pressings, 1st UK vinyl is all it’s hyped up to be, but I have not yet heard an MFSL copy.
     
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  21. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Someone said he sang like Gabriel better than Gabriel.

    Actually it did, in a way. They started more often to come in with complete songs and they went on doing that until the self titled.
    Very rarely were entire songs written by a single member or a pair of them before.


    --


    I think both assumptions are somewhat right. In Lamia Rael refers to the snakes in second person during the verse ("Your flesh that remains" etc.) so it's fair to say that the stage is set for the Lamia. But there's also an implication that this "act" or function the Lamia assolve is repeated over and over again, maybe everyone coming out of the Chamber of 32 doors has the same fate (John apparently had it before Real, but again... he doesn't count) and if this spiritual journey in the subconscious (whatever or whenever or wherever it happens) is an universal experience, in a way the Lamia are waiting for as as well.

    I don't think there's a specific significance behind the choice of POV, it's just a narrative strategy. Trans-media works like this: multiplying media telling the stories, POVs and even narrative subjects it brings a more immersive experience (if it's done well - which is almost never the case). The accompanying story is told by the narrator, who might be also Gabriel. There's a "fourth wall broken" feeling in the intro end in the ending, sort of a hint to the narrative fiction, the author betraying the artificiality of everything. Which (maybe not surprisingly) resonates with the idea of Broadway and its theaters (and movie theaters, quoted at the beginning of the album). And that again seems to be hinted at in "It". After all, it's just a story, folks. "They say the lights are always bright on Broadway. They say there's always magic in the air".

    BTW, some see the "pretentious" line as a inside joke referring to prog music and its perception in '74, as well as "your progressive hypocrites hand out their trash".

    It's endless and I'll stop here. ;D

    Pete has left, it's about the four guys now. Genesis is dead, long live Genesis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  22. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Dance On A Volcano
    Yet again the guys come up with an opener that is fantastic.
    We have a nice little guitar piece that opens up with a great percussive type riff that interrupts this until we get to the main groove of the song.
    The main riff is fantastic with a swaying beat and feel that seems to be over a seven beat and then moves into the first vocal which in itself is great. I much prefer hearing Collins sing realistic lyrics. I'm not sure why, but Gabriel sings the fantasy lyrics more convincingly, but I think Collins sings realistic lyrics a lot better .... not sure why that is as such, but that's how I hear it.
    At about 2:15 we get the first change, and again we have powerful sounding music. Even when we move into the more stripped back section, there is a power there that is very enjoyable to me.
    This all moves back into the main theme. I am not one to really know what hooks are or are not (I tend to just listen to a whole song and appreciate the pieces) but the "better start doing it right" section is what I would imagine to be a hook, and it is brilliant and draws me in every time.
    We move into a much more dramatic musical interlude. You can almost feel that someone is stood on the edge of a volcano and trouble is just around the corner. These guys were always able to convey pictures with their music for me, one of the things that I always liked about them.
    We move into a more gentle section that leads us out of the song.
    Again, to me this is a wonderful opening and trying to think in retrospect, gives me high hopes that the band has surpassed everything previous, yet again..... but is that to be the case.

     
  23. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    Dance On A Volcano

    Great song, heavier than normal, maybe a bit too busy in parts, goes kinda fusion at the end (like Moonlit Knight).

    --Geoff
     
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  24. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I gave Trick to a schoolmate that saw it on my desk at school and asked to try it.
    It was kind of unusual 'cause generally nobody was peculiarly interested into trying out my stuff.
    He listened to Guns 'N' Roses usually.
    He came back following day. "I can't listen to this stuff. The volume keeps going up and down!"

    And that was it.

    Volcano is inspired by Carlos Castaneda's books.
    I never went further than that so I can't say in which way or what they are about.


    I guess Phil is less of a fantasy guy to begin with and he's just less convinced, less into it.
    Also, Gabriel in Genesis is a narrator and he acts out the lyrics, even with vocal nuances. Phil is a plain singer. His stage presence is being funny and at times buffoon, not an actor.
    He's good and skilled, but he sings sounds more than words.

    This attitude/approach is mirrored by his solo writing and also his jamming routine with Genesis: he never starts from the lyrics, or from an idea, he utters sounds at random and if they sound good he then finds words than can match them; if he utters real words, then he tries to find a way to give 'em a meaning.
    If he fails, he leaves 'em there. And we have In The Air Tonight (whose obscure stream-of-consciousness lyrics don't mean anything specific but convey a sense of rage and resentment) or the much hated Sussudio (a nonsense word that ends up being both the chorus and the title of a song - a hit, nevertheless).
     
  25. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    The boys knew how to open albums with a bang, and Volcano certainly does that. The arrangement of the instruments is perfect - and the chord change at 0:31 is spine-tingling. This might be the one song that I'm most familiar with in the Genesis cannon, and it really shows just how well they melded together as a band.

    I have to agree wholeheartedly with mark winstanley about Collins' vocals vs. Gabriel's vocals. Phil does the realistic vocals much better, and I actually think he's a better singer overall. Not to say that Peter is a bad singer, he's just different, and not quite as strong as Phil. Phil sounds like he has better breath control and sings more from the abdomen while Peter is more of a throat singer. Peter is much more original, though. He has a unique style while Phil is much more conventional.

    Anyway, Volcano is a 5/5 and probably my 2nd favorite Genesis track overall (after Fifth of Firth).
     

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