Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    I never thought the lyrics were bad, but your interpretation of them makes them easier to understand. Until now I never thought of the song as more than a kind of fairytale. The issue of hunting for sport and the controversy surrounding it seems to occupy the English in a way it does not occupy the citizens of other countries, so I imagine the message in this song would go right over many of our heads.
     
  2. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    "The chase that ensues can have only one end, unless outside help steps in for our friend in need."

    This is from the next album, but it's a nice example. I can hear Phil running out of breath on "friend in need"
     
  3. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    the members of Genesis would have known all about that great English sport of fox-hunting. It may even have taken place not far from the walls of Charterhouse.

    A hound makes an appearance on one of their early singles; later on they see fit to name a whole album Foxtrot, with a suitably themed cover; you get this song Squonk; and then we have "All In a Mouse's Night", which is a cat and a mouse rather than a hound and a fox but the idea is the same. The recurrence of this theme is probably unconscious on their part rather than being a preoccupation, but it's interesting nonetheless.
     
  4. George Co-Stanza

    George Co-Stanza Forum Resident

    Location:
    America
    Squonk is one of my two least favorites on this record, along with the title track, but I still like it a lot. It shows you how strong this record is when a song this good rates that low.

    I miss the Entangled discussion, but that is one that should be put in a time capsule for humans to listen to hundreds of years from now. Just an amazing musical accomplishment.
     
  5. prudence2001

    prudence2001 Forum Resident

    As for hounds and hunting, how about the great White Mountain, with the magical tale of the Fang, the usurper, who must die in battle with One-Eye. I'd say it is one of the best tracks from the '76 tour. Who else got their start with Genesis bootlegs with the fabulous White Mountain LP? ;-)

    [​IMG]
     
  6. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Still surprised Robbery was put in such evidence live. Maybe the central section acted a little as technical showcase.

    Out of curiosity, was there a song from Trick that was not played in the following(s) tours(s)?
     
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  7. Lecords

    Lecords Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pacific NW
    Yes. To the best of my knowledge, "Mad Man Moon" and "A Trick of the Tail"—both solo Banks compositions, which may be significant—were never played live. "Mad Man Moon" is overdub city, so I can see why they skipped that one, but so was "One for the Vine" and they made that work.
     
  8. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    And please someone explain me why did I add those "(s)". Oh well, never write before breakfast, lesson(s) learned(s) - maybe(s).
     
  9. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Trick was even a single! Curious choice. Not many bands would do that.
     
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  10. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    It was the most lightweight song on the album, a pretty obvious choice, I think.
     
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  11. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    yep, as a single. I was referring to the exclusion from the setlist. I bet many were expecting to hear it.
     
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  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Mad Man Moon
    This has a very pretty start with some gentle synth and piano that leads us to Phil's vocal. There is a very nice chord sequence that leads the melody, and also a nice use of dynamics that for the most part remains towards the gentle side.
    After the first Mad man moon section we get a little semi-Latin breakdown which adds a little flavour to the mix, and that leads to one of Tony's keyboard flourishes. Although it is very nice, it may be a little longer than it deserves to be.
    This is followed by a slightly faster section that again slides back into the slower section.
    There is nothing essentially wrong with this song, but it just comes across as a little wandering and ponderous. It feels a little lost and although containing dynamic sections, they are just a little dull. I think a little more obvious guitar could have lifted this one out of the average pile for me.
     
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  13. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    This is where I'm gonna throw the "Love" word. When we love, we accept imperfection (well, we should at least). I think this song has more good to bring than faults to show.

    That said, I'll go back to my usual critical self.

    -

    This was the greatest slow burner of the record and possibly of their entire production.
    Initially it was displacing, disorienting. Today I can simply say it was a Banks's solo song. But I didn't know better at thee time.
    "Is this Genesis? It sounds weird, offset, even dull..."
    I didn't even try that hard, I just dismissed it until years later it grew on its own (full disclaimer: maybe I was the one to have grown up).

    First of all, I found the lyrics beautiful and among the most poetic Banks ever wrote. It still is a loose "fantasy" tale of sorts (again, trying to get into Pete's boots?) but the slow part is so full of imagery and metaphors that can transcend the narrative to almost make it independent poetry (you decide if good or bad poetry, that's not the point).
    he full body of lyrics plays with concepts of unreachable goals, mirages, illusions, uncertainty, sense of being lost, and even how all believes can be frail and shortsighted. All of witch are strong (even if easy, ok) existential themes. I can picture the desert in front of me.

    Was it summer when the river ran dry / Or was it just another dam ...
    So I pretended to have wings for my arms / And took off in the air ...
    I would welcome a horses kick to send me back / If I could find a horse not made of sand ...
    Within the valley of shadow-less death / They pray for thunderclouds and rain / But to the multitude who stand in the rain /Heaven is where the sun shines

    and so on... I call it brilliant.

    I also totally love how the melody is phrased and extended in the passages like Though I'd heard it said just birds ---- could dwell ---- so high.

    The central section, on the other hand, is weaker and together with the irregular tempo opening, it almost seems there just because or "just because I'm Tony Banks".

    I agree that it brings variety but it's not really remarkable, it could be completely taken off and replaced with another and I wouldn't miss it maybe.
    Lyrics have a change in tone too, trying to get more ironic and I's day gritty, almost scorning, in contrast with the main character's romanticism. And yet, they deliver and everything gets back to the initial mood, like if nothing happened. No maturation, no impact on the narrative, the could just not be there. Weird.

    -

    But again, this song has so much to bring on the table that I won't complain in the end.


    -

    Oh, I never got the title's meaning. I get that is about being a dreamer but how would you paraphrase it? Is there a reference to something British or literary?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  14. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    Mad Man Moon

    A precursor to One For The Vine ... a lubberly piano ballad with mellotron and hints of Hackett. Lyrically it's all metaphor and romanticism. The only bit I don't like is the "Hey man / I'm the sandman" vocal section in the middle, it's kind of messy, at least until the "sun and sand" turn-around to the main melody.

    --Geoff
     
  15. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Mad Man Moon: Too much Tony, not enough Steve. And, again, more terrible lyrics. Sone editing would have greatly benefited this song, but perhaps they didn't have enough otheromaterial to justify squashing Tony's arrangement this time around.
     
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  16. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    I agree that Mad Man Moon would benefit from some editing, but it has some very lovely parts in it and a lot of things work well. I also like the lyric poetry, they bring to mind a man who is lost and dying - not literally in the desert, but because he's lost someone he loves. The desert is a metaphor for the loneliness and alienation the man is going through. Like the desert scene depicted, the man sees no end to it. I don't know what the phrase "mad man moon" means other than he knows the moon he sees in the desert is the same moon his love sees and gives him hope of escape, although he is in so much despair, hope is almost non-existent. Or maybe he feels betrayed by the romanticism of the moon.

    If I had to rank the songs on this album, I'd put this at 2nd worst.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  17. AidanB

    AidanB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    I really enjoy this tune, probably my favorite of the album. Very well constructed and very nostalgic for me.
     
  18. My third favorite track on ATOTT (particularly the opening and closing piano bits).

    In the interview portion of the DVD of the blue box, Tony said he was never happy with the middle section.

    In relation to @HiredGoon's comment, I feel that "MMM" is a precursor to "Burning Rope" (with it's references to the elements).
     
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  19. NettleBed

    NettleBed Forum Transient

    Location:
    new york city
    Mostly agreed. As I stated in my album overview, I usually skip this one (I don't own AToTT on vinyl, so this is easily done). I don't know that "more Hackett" is something that would make the song more appealing to me, and I don't know that more editing would either - it was a 'Tony' song and he probably had edited it to his satisfaction. I'm not sure what the others would have done that he would have instead preferred. But on that subject, subbing in Ace of Wands for MMM on Trick would have been much preferable to me! I see the 'Tony' songs - which started to appear with greater frequency after PG left - as generally being the weaker moments on the albums. I like the melodicism he contributed to the group tracks, as it sometimes provided an nice contrast to aggressions elsewhere, but left to his own devices you get too much sentimentality and wimpy-ness.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
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  20. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Mad Man Moon

    Best song on the album, with the possible exception of Ripples - they may swap places depending on my mood. Now considering how much I have already praised the first three tracks, that should tell you how much I love this one.

    This song is so Banks, it's like a mini-opera. Slow intro, several movements, changes in mood, and - slay the fatted calf - once more a properly realised ending, as opposed to a fade-out!

    I've quoted that verse that begins "Within the valley..." so many times to people. It's a piece of philosophy that could have come straight out of Omar Khayyam. There are several sections of the lyrics that are still a mystery to me, but I must admit I haven't tried very hard to discern the full meaning of every line, I tend to simply get lost in enjoying the music.

    On Banks' first solo album, A Curious Feeling, there are many echoes of this period of Genesis. Listening to both albums, I can imagine how much he was enjoying doing those long rambling instrumental sections, probably wanting to carry on a bit longer, but having to restrain himself because after all it was a song and he had to leave room for Phil to come back and pick up the song from where he left off. On the solo albums he could do what he liked, resulting in three long and quite gorgeous totally instrumental pieces.
     
  21. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Nothing against Steve, but I can never have too much Tony.
     
  22. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Aha, ok.
     
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  23. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Mad Man Moon - best song on the album.
     
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  24. Peace N. Love

    Peace N. Love Forum Resident

    I love the beginning and end parts of Mad Man Moon, but on revisiting it after a few years, I know find the whole "hey man I'm the sandman" part a little too delightful/showy. I even tried to edit it out but it didn't work. :)
     
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  25. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    Phil is/was the better technician on vocals - smoother, more of a belter when he needed to be. But what's so remarkable about Peter is the way his voice aged. After Genesis, he progressively took on this rich, soulful, pleasant rasp that, by the time US came out, he had become one of my favorite singers of all time. Still is.

    Always loved Phil's singing too, but I haven't heard his older voice at all.

    A Trick Of The Tail is just a wonderful album. Superb. I love every second of it.
     

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