Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. misteranderson

    misteranderson Forum Resident

    Location:
    englewood, nj
    The playing's great, but the lyrics - ugh. The very definition of twee. Always ruined the tune for me.

    It's the only thing on W&W I skip. The cool thing is, being Genesis, there's still a 50 minute album there without it! Always value for money with Genesis....
     
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  2. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    All In A Mouse's Night is not a good song in my book. The lyrics are really terrible and the music isn't anything special except for Steve's solo in the coda. I wonder what the other three were thinking when Tony presented his song about a mouse trying to get a snack in the middle of the night. Like...is this guy kidding or what??

    It does help to lighten the mood a bit for side 2. Without Mouse's Night, side 2 would be extremely dark and depressing and I can't imagine Blood On The Rooftops as the leadoff track for act 2.
     
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  3. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    I think it’s both a mistake and unfair for folks to see “Wot Gorilla?” as a focus of Steve’s issues, and with the idea that it was a direct substitute to his “Please Don’t Touch”. PDT was dropped at the rehearsal stage, and three other additional tracks were recorded, so it really doesn’t make sense for these two particular songs to be seen as rivals. Yes, Steve has expressed his frustration with not getting to follow through with PDT, and with his less than enthusiastic impressions of “Wot Gorilla?”, but the connection ends there.

    I’ve always liked “Wot Gorilla?”. I think it’s a neat little soundscape that fits in nicely on W&W. As mentioned earlier, it takes its theme from “One For The Vine” (similarly as the end of “... in that quiet earth” recalls “11th Earl”). So I wouldn’t consider it a throw away piece since there is clearly a deliberate intention behind the composition. I’ve always wondered if it may have been meant to be part of the instrumental section on side two, but somehow got relocated.
     
  4. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    They were producing lots of music and wanted to release as much as they could. Remember, they had 4-5 writers/contributors who were all fighting (sometimes literally) to push their contributions, so maxing out LP space was just a consequence of the availability of material and the competition to get material accepted.
     
  5. MicSmith

    MicSmith Forum Resident

    AIAMN is from the same school of thought as Robbery Assault and Battery. In other words it was Genesis trying to continue a trend of writing humorous story songs that began with Harold the Barrel but that by 1976 was sounding somewhat dated as an approach to writing. It’s not a bad track but compared to everything else on the album it hasn’t aged well lyrically and therefore stands out as weak.

    It might have been served better on an EP with Wot Gorilla and Pigeons. A sort of B Movie version of Floyd’s Animals.....
     
  6. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    A fine song. Great review.
     
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  7. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    You're not supposed to! Ever heard of humour?

    Genesis along with The Who are the only two bands that can make me crack up laughing while at the same time blissing out to the music. I love "Mouse", especially the ending. This is Tony really letting fly with the mellotron.

    As for "not understanding the point of the last verse", the whole song would be just a fairly pointless tale with a rather depressing ending, were it not for this twist (a trick of the tail, you could call it). The cat considers himself pretty good, justifying his keep by the ability to catch mice, something that his human family cannot do. When he stuffs up and lets the mouse escape, he is forced to concoct this fantasy of the monster mouse, which he imagines relating to the man and woman, to explain the debacle and paint himself as an injured hero instead of an inept failure. Meanwhile the poor innocent little mouse, who was only looking for some tasty treat to satisfy its hunger, lives to forage another day. As usual, it's possible to read a message into this, or alternatively to just hear it as an amusing little tale.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
  8. MicSmith

    MicSmith Forum Resident

    Mark - The monster mouse is a shadow of the mouse cast onto a wall that the cat mistakes for a real monster sized mouse.
     
  9. MisterSquishy

    MisterSquishy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    4:36 to the end of Mouse is simply a top tier musical moment for the band. Like an expansion of what they did on Ripples, Tony & Steve find a way to perfectly blend their interplay of harmony & counterpoint. Best parts include the twisty "classic Hackett riff #1" at 5:28 that he uses a lot of elsewhere, the brief reprise of the 11th Earl octave motif at 5:40, & that wistful melody at 5:51 that's almost reminiscent of a snippet of Los Endos. Devastatingly beautiful.
     
  10. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    Oh..............................

    That's what that was.

    Fun fact - Genesis played All In a Mouse's Night live only in the first month of the Wind and Wuthering tour and never again. It's quite a great song in that context.

    Wot Gorilla, this might have been covered was only played a single time live in a medley that was apparently not good enough for them to keep doing it - on 1/1/1977, the first date of the tour!

     
  11. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
    ️️
    It's a beautiful little intro indeed, Tony used the same sort of intro on "Ballad Of Big". I'll comment further on when we reach that track.
     
  12. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    I wouldn't say that exactly, its more that the lyrics just come across as too goofy (not to mention unoriginal) being essentially the plot of a Tom & Jerry children's cartoon. Most of their other fantasy/sci-fi/mythological based lyrics are a bit more...well...fantastical, while this song's lyrics are about as compelling/interesting as well, a children's cartoon. Most of their other lyrics in the 70s were at least somewhat evocative and open to some interpretation, while these lyrics are far too obvious/"on the nose".

    I do wonder if they possibly regretted their decision to include 'Mouse' rather than 'Inside & Out' on the album since according to setlist.com 'Inside & Out' was played live on this tour almost twice as often as 'Mouse' was - 33 to 18 performances. I have to imagine at least some of these performances occurred in countries where the 'Spot The Pigeon EP' was never released. Inside & Out may have been used as a single B-side instead in some of those countries, but even then Genesis were hardly selling a lot of singles at this time - point is - they would have been playing a song that the vast majority of the audience (in some countries) wouldn't have known/heard before as it didn't appear on the album.

    Also as an aside Wot Gorilla was performed only once on this tour (EDIT: which I noticed above someone just beat me to mentioning). The only song from W&W never performed live by Genesis is 'Blood On the Rooftops' though who knows if it may have turned up in a later tour's setlist if Hackett hadn't quit after this tour (since it was such a Hackett showpiece). Apparently they DID consider performing it on their reunion tour a decade ago, perhaps as it would sit far more comfortably within Phil's then current vocal range than the majority of their other older songs - for instance 'Squonk' would have been a vocal impossibility for Phil to pull off a decade ago (even with dropping the key - its far too range-y). 'Rooftops' is in contrast relatively easy to sing.
     
  13. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    In some interview within this decade Phil said he regrets not doing Blood on the Rooftops in some form while in Genesis, again not surprising given he has a writing credit also.
     
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  14. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
    ️️
    Great point. That excerpt is one of their greatest contributions ever as a duo, had it been longer by incorporating even more melodic variations it'd have been perhaps their greatest ever in my book.
     
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  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Blood On The Rooftops
    I find it interesting that folks seem to view Please Don't Touch not being on the album as Hackett being kept off the album or something. In reality, he had a hand in The Eleventh Earl and was responsible for most of side two, so he was hardly being held aside. Anyhow ....
    ------------------------------------------------
    "Blood on the Rooftops" is a song concerning "the tedium and repetitiveness of television news and the overall mocking disgust that must sometimes accompany watching the news happen".[10] The music to its chorus was written by Collins with Hackett writing the music to the verses, song's lyrics and its classical guitar introduction.[22] According to Hackett, the song was a love song originally. He explained, "When I heard the other lyrics on the album, there was a bit of a romantic tinge anyway, so I decided to go right the other way and make it as cynical as possible." Banks and Rutherford both claimed it was Hackett's best song as a member of the group.[23]

    ------------------------------------------------------
    This track starts with some very pretty classical guitar styling with a Bach type of flavour too it.
    Lyrically we start with Phil inviting us to stay and watch tv with them, because we always watch the Queen on Christmas day.
    At the end of this first line we get the first flourish of music aside from the classical guitar, and it comes in the form of some beautifully arranged Mellotron and I'm assuming the Roland String Synthesizer.
    The next verse deals with the idea of the viewer being safe and sound no matter what is on the news "Though your eyes see shipwrecked sailors, you're still dry" and then quips that the weather is fine, but Wales my have some rain. There is a beautifully dismissive feel about these opening lines. The passive drone sitting sucking up the news, from the safety zone with indifference. Again we get a beautiful musical flourish at the end of the lyric and then we come in with a bang.
    With a somewhat dramatic use of dynamics and the full band coming in with the drum kit providing the punch. Lyrically we get informed of the subject wanting to skip the news because essentially they don't care about all the stuff on there, as it doesn't affect them, and they don't want to stay "up late, to watch some debate, on some nation's fate."
    Musically I absolutely love this track. Lyrically, although I understand it, I'm not so sure that it is some fantastic song about world events. It is more aligned with completely avoiding the reality of the world. Certainly there are a list of issues, but they are all completely avoided by going and making a cup of tea, and complaining that rain has stopped play at the cricket. It is quite brilliant in its description of many people's attitudes towards world events, and in this day and age, with melodrama being the news group's M.O. on the whole, it makes even more sense now than it did in 1977. I like the lyrics, because they describe well people's complete indifference to others suffering and a complete lack of sympathy, but by the same token that is hardly endearing.
    On the whole we have a great song, that is incredibly cynical and negative.
     
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  16. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    For sure not a common theme for Genesis of this time period and one that has such a atmosphere and works as a band composition so well you really do notice the difference with this piece and just about every other piece on the album - it is Hackett's but I feel a lot of the album feels like one or two man songs, where this one always strikes me as something that would only be doable in the confines of Genesis as a band and not as a solo piece (Eleventh Earl of Mar being the exception) - it has some of Tony's best work despite it not being his song, the vocal is incredibly endearing while keeping to a reserved tone the entire song; even during the chorus Phil never gets too into it, which I noticed when Hackett performed live, his drummer Gary O'Toole added some energy that made the thing feel much more heavy. Lyrically it's an absolute depressing piece that I don't really think anyone in Genesis would touch again. Something like for example Heathaze is sad in it's own right, but I don't believe Genesis wrote anything more pessimistic than Blood on the Rooftops.
     
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  17. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    Blood On The Rooftops is the most mature song on the album, both musically and lyrically. It's fairly straight-forward with the lyrics, pointing out the public's indifference to the pain and suffering of others to the point that the public becomes numb to it and falls back on the mundane in order to cope. If any track on the album had music that matched the words, this is it (although Afterglow is another great example.) It's entirely dark, sad and pessimistic. And coming after the cartoonish Mouse's Night, totally unexpected. Back in the day (oh boy, here we go, grampa) they used to show cartoons and shorts before the main feature at the movies. Side two kind of starts out like that - Mouse's Night is the cartoon, and Blood is the news.
     
  18. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Blood On the Rooftops

    Those who criticised the story line of "Mouse" will hopefully be happy with the lyrics of this song, which is a pretty straightforward commentary about the general shallowness of most of the population. They are watching the news for something to do, not because they take a real interest in it; when they get bored with it they will switch over to some police drama, or if all else fails there's the cricket. "We always watch the Queen on Xmas Day." "They're out for 23". The references are very British, but i would like to think the themes are universal. I'm sure Americans have their soporific equivalent; Australians certainly do.

    This is my favourite from the album. Steve should be happy the others let him have free rein with the quite extended classical style guitar intro. It's not necessary, the song would have been quite OK without it, but I don't care, it's just great to listen to. It serves pretty much the same function as "Horizons" at the front of "Supper's Ready", though in this case they chose to denote it as being part of the song, rather than giving it a separate name and track listing.
     
  19. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    That doesn't give the intro enough credit.

    Hackett himself refers to the intro as Blood on the Rooftops in live releases.
     
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  20. HiredGoon

    HiredGoon Forum Resident

    Blood On The Rooftops

    My oh my what a song. From the typical Hackett nylon string intro to the dramatic chorus ... superb stuff. Mr Hackett & band performed this song at the gig I attended in Brisbane and it was a highlight of the evening.

    --Geoff
     
  21. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Blood On The Rooftops is probably the only track from the W&W era that I would play for a Genesis newbie, if I were to try to give him/her a career highlights compilation. To me, it's that good.
     
  22. Rojo

    Rojo Forum Resident

    The animal being hunted cannot tell whether he is being chased in or out of the hunting season.

    I believe that's what it means.
     
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  23. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
    ️️
    First off, Blood On The Rooftops is one more GREAT showcase of their awesome musicianship, with such a beautiful emotional contrast they achieved by starting off with that top-notch acoustic guitar melodies, and no one better than Hackett to embellish that contrast with his ludic by nature feel he conveyed to it. Thus, when Phil's stunningly heartfelt singing lines are anounced by Mike's bombastic bass and Tony's synth lines you're already trapped into that particular momentum, especially prepared to drown you into that utterly emotional ride headed by Phil. Love that track!
    A pity that Phil Collins didn't include Blood On The Rooftops in his live repertoire, because his singing is perfect on it. But it's not the same to me without that beautiful intro, by any stretch of imagination!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2019
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  24. bob_32_116

    bob_32_116 Forum Flaneur

    Location:
    Perth Australia
    BOTR seems to be a track that everyone loves. Is it possible that we at last have some kind of consensus? Amazing.
     
  25. Eleventh Earl of Mar

    Eleventh Earl of Mar Somehow got them all this far.

    Location:
    New York
    Get ready for the next album...

    Plus, it's interesting to see more opinions that go either way. If all albums were a consensus it'd be a pretty boring thread really.
     
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