Genesis - The Album by Album Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
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  2. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    It makes sense to me.
     
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  3. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA

    Maybe because, mostly, Tony did write it.

    Look, I like Steve Hackett, and I think he probably did get a little Harrison'd in Genesis. But the reality is that Banks and Rutherford, as part of the collaborative whole, wrote better material.

    I do think that the word collaborative is quite important when it comes to Genesis. Tony's solo material is similar, but misses the arrangement touches that could make it great. That's what Mike and Steve and Phil brought to the party even when Tony's name was the only one on the sheet music.
     
  4. Dalav

    Dalav Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    I hadn’t heard the remix of Pigeons until now. On the whole the remix works—the sound is fuller, but i’m not sure i’m sold on the low-fi singing-in-box effect alplied to the main vocal line. That’s one of the bigger changes we’ve heard in all the remixes.
     
  5. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Interesting - it was never going to happen though. They had been friends with Kenney Jones since the mid 60s, and had been using him as a drummer on occasion since at least the Tommy movie soundtrack (recorded in 1974). The band had already given thought about who might replace Moon before he actually died, given his deteriorating drumming ability and failing health and addiction issues. Though Daltrey wasn't that keen on Jones, Townshend and Entwistle absolutely were.

    When Moon died, the job was Kenney Jones's to lose - or to turn down, as he was their first pick.
     
  6. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Another contributing reason (I can't see it having been a main reason) for Hackett wanting to leave was what he considered the "waste of time"/"spinning his wheels" feeling about working on the 'Seconds Out' live album which he found un-creative and redundant, when he would have much rather spent that time and energy working on a solo album.
     
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  7. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    Nah - its because they built and owned their own studio (The Farm) and would write from jamming in the studio, recording everything then listening back for the good bits to string together into songs. This was of course not an option prior to them having their own studio as the costs at a commercial studio for such a method would have been astronomical. Their first album recorded in the own studio was Abacab, though they didn't write that in the studio - they were writing it while the studio was being built. The next album was the first in which they wrote the material completely in the studio from scratch through jamming.
     
  8. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Spot the Pigeon - I find this EP boring and I'm glad they left the tracks off W&W, an album that is just fine as it is. To me this EP shows that the four piece setting had come to an end. Pigeons is the least weak track, but I can do without all three.
     
  9. magister345

    magister345 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Zurich
    Spot the Pigeon: Definitely second tier material compared to W&W, but worth a listen now and then. Match of the day is easily the weakest of the 3 tracks. I have it on a 7"-single.
     
  10. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    The way the credits are presented in wiki are meaningless and should be ignored. That is not how they were presented when that EP was originally released.

    “Match Of The Day” & “Pigeons” were written by Tony, Mike, and Phil.

    Phil had top credit for MotD, followed by Tony and Mike. Apparently, Phil did not feel that it was a very strong effort and over time seemed to be a little embarrassed by it. Subsequently it was not included in the early archives release.

    Tony gets top credit for “Pigeons”, followed by Mike and Phil.

    “Inside and Out” is Mike’s song, with Phil writing the lyrics. Steve and Tony get additional credits, mainly for their input into the jam section of the track.

    Although the other band members have said that they felt Steve’s membership in the band was temporary, they had no indication that his departure was coming during that time, and irrelevant to the songwriting credits for those tracks.

    Also, PDT is pretty much a non-issue at this point. The whole coulda/woulda/shoulda ruminations over a three minute instrumental bit that the band never recorded gets overplayed IMO. Generally, the W&W sessions went well and smoothly; sentiments expressed by both Tony and Steve. I get the feeling that it’s just mostly the fans that bring the drama into that part of the band’s history.

    Anyway... :D

    I’ve always liked the Spot The Pigeon EP. Side A offers up a more whimsical side of Genesis. A couple of fun, easygoing tracks, with arrangements that you wouldn’t expect from the band at that time. “Inside and Out”, of course, is more in the familiar “prog” vein, with I believe to be one of Mike’s best chord arrangements and melodies, all topped off with a zingy instrumental flourish.

    If I had the power, influence, and time travel capabilities, and could have changed anything on the W&W album, I would have simply replaced YOSW and “Wot Gorilla?” with “Inside and Out”. I think that would have made for a pretty solid Side 1. :cool:
     
  11. Rick Robson

    Rick Robson

    Location:
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    +1
     
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  12. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    From my listen yesterday, I certainly wouldn't swap anything off Wind And Wuthering for any of these either
     
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  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That's cool, and that's why I made the disclaimer
     
  14. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    Which one would that be? Why do believe this to be the case?
     
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  15. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident

    The first time Genesis talked about Spot The Pigeon: a 5th february 1977 article on National Rockstar magazine. The last 3 columns reveal the early news of a possible forthcoming ep.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident

    Spot The Pigeon got mentioned in the Wind and Wuthering Atco press kit as well, halfway on the 4th column:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
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  17. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident

    In the last part of this NME interview, Phil Collins feels quite confident on the forthcoming ep, even suggesting to the interviewer that 2 of the 3 songs could be a hit:

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Match Of The Day
    There is nothing essentially wrong with this track. It sounds a little rushed or something. It sounds as though it was put down quickly and released on a whim.
    The lyrical content is very much painting a picture of a soccer fan watching the game and also a third person description of what's going on.
    Musically it's a bouncy fun affair with a prominent guitar intro, that drops back to the keys and bass. I don't think Phil needs to be embarrassed about this song, I just think it's good that it doesn't appear on an album release. In this EP, it has a fun charm and shows the band not taking themselves too seriously. In the prog world that is one of the things that set Genesis aside from their contemporaries. They were able to have a laugh as well as lay down some seriously good music.
    At the end of the day, this is a nice little side track, bonus track, and the EP is certainly where it needed to be, if it was going to be released.

     
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  19. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    I really enjoyed these three articles. They give a very clear view of the band’s perspective to their album creation process.
     
  20. peterpyser

    peterpyser Forum Resident

    Yes, very true.
    The first one in particular, where Tony Banks really anticipate the times (and hits) to come, emphasized by the title of the article, which summarizes the direction and ambitions of the band very well.
     
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  21. Victor/Victrola

    Victor/Victrola Makng shure its write

    I remember reading a quote from Steve from when they were mixing the live album, and he just couldn't take hearing Squonk one more time, so your point has some validity.
     
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  22. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    Yes, my comments weren’t intended to be viewed chronologically, if that was your interpretation, I just wanted to point out some of the main issues Steve had been dealing with. It’s just my impression that cancelling plans to make another solo record would have been the greater issue.

    Also, he had talked about wanting to bring in other musicians and ideas that fell outside of the traditional Genesis working routine, which had been rejected, particularly by Tony. That was also a big reason which egged him on to going it alone.
     
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  23. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    Yeah, it was just something that Phil through out there in retrospect. He was going through a fairly low period around that time, and the idea of leaving Genesis was a very real consideration; a kind of “ah, if only” moment.
     
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  24. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    All In A Mouse's Night is the one.
    Imho it's a filler in epic clothes.
    And why? There are two other tracks credited to him as a sole composer.

    I know they didn't care who had the biggest share of songwritting, but I have my doubts whether they (Phil and Mike) really selected what they thought were the best material or were just complacent to Tony's domination.
     
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  25. HenryH

    HenryH Miserable Git

    And so it begins... :rolleyes:






    ;)
     
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