To add to the above, thinking back to when I discovered the album in the mid-late 80s and listening to it on my walkman in "medium rotation" (all the other Genesis albums I had picked up over the last several months - as well as the next couple months after were mostly in heavy rotation) I can very vividly remember how I felt about it. "This is NOT the same Genesis that came either before or after it." Love (or merely like) their other albums, every one of them "made sense" as to what their aims were, while this album seemed kind of "meh". The earlier adventurousness of their music seemed to have disappeared with this album then made a slight return with Duke and then fully blossomed again with Abacab. It was I don't know "Genesis by numbers" perhaps? It could also have to do with the fact that this was probably the album with the most solo composed tracks of them all. Most of their best moments throughout their career seemed to be the full group (or at least a couple members) written songs. They must have agreed since their next album had only two solo composed tracks by each member, the following album just one solo composition by each member, and after that all solo compositions were relegated to solo projects. The best song on the album for me was always and still is, "Burning Rope" as its the song that sounds the most like what came before on earlier albums - probably because of the Hackett-ish lead guitar. The "pop sellout" complaints some make about this album are absurd, since it had no more pop songs on it than their previous album did, plus FYFM is a better and more interesting pop song than YOSW. If one wants to argue that this album had two singles while W&W only had one, if you include the poppy "lead track" on the EP (UK#14 on the singles chart) recorded during the W&W sessions that's two singles each, plus Afterglow may have made a decent pop single as well. It seemed to me that with ATTW3 they were trying to continue on as if nothing had happened/or Steve's departure didn't musically matter, but it did. Ironically though, one conscious decision they did make to "shake things up" was to avoid (for the most part) the longer songs in order to get more songs/more variety on the album. This backfired since there is very little variety on the album as most of the songs sound the same, though production and instrumental sounds selection play a part in this as well. While not a bad album, for me its a "treading water" almost "going through the motions" album where (like many of their peers) they stopped being truly "progressive" and settled in to just being "prog" (meaning displaying all the cliches of the genre/repeating themselves). No wonder all the classic "prog" bands were going belly up at the time. If not for FYFM (and then Misunderstanding - and then the stripped down/modernizing of their sound with Abacab) they probably would have gone belly up as well. It was almost like ATTW3 was Genesis's 'Tormato' or 'Love Beach' from around the same time (1978) though luckily musically it was better/less of a mess than either of those, but there are still some striking similarities. While the UK went with 'Many Too Many' (which despite including two exclusive non album B-Sides missed the Top 40) as a follow-up to FYFM, in the US they went with 'Deep In The Motherlode' (sort of). They edited out the middle section and renamed the song 'Go West Young Man' (it of course missed the charts completely):
And Then There Were Three I got this album simultaneously with A Trick of the Tale, after only having the Genesis albums from the '80s. My attention was much more drawn to ATTOT, but I got a bit of mileage out of this one, in the beginning anyway. My appraisal of ATTWT is that it is a contender for Genesis' second-worst album (really nothing can "top" Calling All Stations in that regard). I'm a Genesis fan, though, so I don't think any of their albums (again, apart from Calling All Stations) are outright *bad*. I think ATTWT has some bad songs on it, but also some good ones and some mediocre ones. I guess that means that I regard this as a mediocre album, which I guess is fair. Thankfully (IMO) it is a one-off in the band's catalog. There isn't really another album that sounds like ATTWT. With Steve Hackett out but the vision of what they would become not yet realized Genesis simplified their sound some, but otherwise more-or-less tried to stay the same band as they were before Hackett left. So now the synths are bigger and brighter than ever before and are used to drive just about every song on the album. There are guitar parts, but without a bona-fide guitarist in the band, they lost the potential of having another lead instrument. As others have already noted, what remained of Genesis was too often only superficially prog but - for a variety of reasons, depending on the song - not really working as good pop either. You'd never know any of that based on the opener. 'Down and Out' is one of the band's better songs, IMO. Much like Blood on the Rooftops from the previous album, it's a song that goes somewhere a bit different, both musically and lyrically, from what they had been doing, but which nevertheless sounds just like Genesis. Progression of the best kind, IMO. It's also a song that wants for nothing, in terms of more or more complicated guitar parts; the keys carry it fine. Concert drummer Chester Thompson wasn't able to grasp the beat, however, and unfortunately the song was never performed live. My assessment of the rest of the album is a relatively stronger side 1 and a weaker side 2. I like Undertow, but it's also a perfect example of a song that is decent enough on ATTWT but which IMO could have been much better with lead guitar parts. The chorus in particular would have been a fertile area to have an additional guitar line, either to provide counterpoint or just allow for some amount of harmonic richness. Not that Steve Hackett would have been a likely candidate for this, but I've often listened to this song and imagined some Robert Fripp-inspired guitar lines percolating beneath Banks' keys. The song as it is on the album just feels unfinished and basic, to me - just Tony Banks' gelatinous synthesizers drowning out everything else. Ballad of Big seems like a lot of sound and fury signifying little, IMO. It's got some decent drumming, energetic pace and impassioned vocals but it's monochromatic with those squishy synths and the whole western thing seems very out of place for Genesis. It's ultimately a kind of bloated pop song, and I don't find it to be very catchy, though it's certainly listenable. Definitely a song that Steve Hackett could have made more appealing, I feel. Snowbound gets the textures better but loses me with the goofy chorus. It's neither here nor there. Burning Rope is another Tony Banks mini-epic, in the vein of Mad Man Moon and One for the Vine, and I like it better than both of those. I think that real lead guitarist could have elevated it even farther, but I do like it fine enough as-is. If the second side of ATTWT had as many hits as the first, I'd like the album as much as Wind & Wuthering. But for me it doesn't. Deep in the Motherlode is the only song from the second side that I like. It suffers from Banks' over-saturation of synths, but also has some beefy guitar chords in just he right places and at least has a decent chorus. The inexplicable western theme is back, though (for a band as English as Genesis, it just feels weird to me and ultimately it's too bad that they didn't write some other lyrics into this tune). The live version that they used to open the 1980 shows is even better, as the energy is really amped up. There's nothing else on the album that I like much, though. Many Too Many and Say It's Alright Joe introduce us to the arena-sized adult contemporary type thing that Genesis would put on most of the rest of their albums. They're hookless slogs. Scene's From a Night's Dream and The Lady Lies are just sad reminders of what this band once did with fantastical/macabre subject matter; the former being so bad it's too embarrassing to listen to. Follow You Follow Me shows the band getting better at writing a catchy pop song, but there's too much chorus repetition and the lyrics are such pure drippy sentiment that I find them impossible to stomach - I cannot and will not ever play this song of my own accord again. I've got no problem with Genesis as a pop band and I like what they did in the 1980s, but ATTWT was a stylistic dead-end for the band, and I'm glad they never went back to that place. On the plus side again - I love the album cover - probably my favorite in the band's whole catalog.
The first ever song I saw Genesis play live was Deep In The Motherlode on the Duke your. What an opener!!!!! Always been a favourite G track of mine.
To me, it's obvious that ATTWT is more pop, more easy accessible, more commercial and and a lot different than previous albums, if it's a good or bad thing I think is a matter of taste.
The first two songs weren’t truly collaborative. Phil only gets a credit for lyrics. But his contributions were always relatively limited. That’s one of the odd contradictions regarding Steve and his role in the band. He left because he wasn’t able to contribute enough/we miss Steve because of his contributions.
Well... he did absolutely play it, it was just dropped from the set really early and never came back.
This album has three stone cold Genesis classics - Deep in the Motherlode, Down and Out and Burning Rope. Two very effective ballads - Many Too Many and Snowbound One killer pop tune - FYFM I'm not crazy about The Lady Lies, Scenes from a Night's Dream or Say It's Alright, Joe, but they're not terrible. The Lady Lies and Joe are great in the Chicago Uptown Theater show. Anyone who calls this album "meh" is a *****.
I believe that you are missing the point. It has been identified and lamented that Steve left the band, in large part, because he was not able to contribute enough material to the band’s efforts to his satisfaction, yet folks proclaim that his absence had an effect upon the band’s output. So, which is it?
Do you just mean that you know Phil only worked on the lyrics? I don’t recall them ever doing separate credits for music and lyrics.
His contributions may have been limited, or not sufficient for him, but they weren’t inaudible. His absence was still noticeable, even if it didn’t have the effect that Tony quitting would have had.
I don't believe I am missing the point - I believe you are misusing the word "contradiction." Steve Hackett *was* in the band and *did* make contributions. Therefore, there is nothing wrong with people missing those contributions when he left the band. That he left the band because he could not make *more* contributions does not render the above a contradiciton - in fact, it is wholly immaterial. There is no contradiction to be found here.
You do understand that there is a difference between song composition and song arrangement, right? Just because Steve didn't write a particular song doesn't mean he didn't put his stamp on it as a player.
Correct. It was played a few dozen times and then dropped, never to appear again, for the reason I stated.
Don't stress, I think it's fantastic and am bewildered by the claims of it being somewhat less than good .... Kind of leaves me scratching my head as to what everyone else is hearing lol
Down And Out Put simply this is the best rock song the band ever did. It is in an odd time signature 5/8, so it is a prog as anything anyone did in rock, in fact it is one of the few prog songs that actually is rock, making it the truest expression of the form. We start with a single held note and then some contrast chords played against it and you can feel something coming. The guitar comes in with one of the best guitar riffs the band ever used, and their guitarist had left. Again the keyboards play some contrast chords during the intro and then Collins comes in with his best vocal with the band so far. The way the drums keep this baby together is magnificent. The arrangement and set up of this is truly wonderful. This is also some of the best keyboard work Tony ever did, not in technicality, but in musicality, he is complimenting the song beautiful and the monster guitar is counter balanced with some beautiful melodic keyboards, that when required also show a certain amount of brutality. The song really doesn't have what I would call a chorus, it is more of a bridge, and what a bridge. Genesis had a habit of feeling the need to soften a lot of their work for dynamic effect, but the decision here is keep that brutal rock thumping. So the bridge comes in and is beautifully accented by the drums, just in this song Collins shows he is worth any praise he has ever been given, and also takes a dump on anyone that has ever criticised him. Again we have these beautiful melodic keyboards planting some beauty under the brutality. We head into the next verse and it is just a s intense, a relentless battery of music that makes the soul soar. Then we move into a great synth lead break, and Tony uses a nice series of runs but even better they are staggered runs he uses some legato phrases and in between we get these beautiful runs. This is one of the best phrased synth breaks he ever did and it crescendos back into the bridge. Lets take a minute to look at the lyrics. This is one of the most direct realistic lyrics the band had ever done up to this point. This is very descriptive of the business world. The protagonist is laying it down, whole describing the reality of how it is. This is as direct and poignant as any punk song ever was. Lyrically this song lives up to it's own hype "I don't talk round corners, it's right between the eyes". The lyrics marry beautifully to the music, absolutely no messing around and straight to the point. The song is so full of magnificence that it could be overwhelming for some I guess. Then musically in another directly point way we come out of the final bridge we get an excellent piece of melodic guitar that lets the last not ring as the the keys play a series of arpeggios in a resolution chord. If Genesis had never made another song, their existence is justified by the piece of absolutely magnificent progressive rock. I could sing the praises of the song all day. It's the best rock song they ever did It's the best Prog song they ever did It is just about the best lyric they ever did And it is the most gripping opening tune they ever did One of the best songs ever recorded. Goodbye to any illusions that this is a pop record
Down and Out is a very strong opener and one of the best songs they ever recorded. It's also my favorite track on the album. It has distinct parts that are very different, but work together well, which is incredibly difficult to pull off without sounding forced. D&O sounds natural; the sudden shift into the "I don't talk around corners" part just rolls out like nothing weird happened, although something weird did just happen. Listening to all the different time signatures going on at once, I wonder how they came up with this. Just jamming one day, each guy doing his own thing and somehow it just fell into place? I can't imagine one of them coming to the party with all this worked out already, it's definitely something each person brings to the mix. Which is why I think it's the perfect opening track for the record. ...And Then There Were Three..., and here they are, each playing their own thing but somehow, it all fits together. A brilliant track, and one of the ones on the album that I rank as "Excellent".
Brilliant album opener. I think back in the day when I was still very much into post punk, the strange rhythm of the song took some getting used to, but now I can’t imagine the track any other way. Certainly my favourite opening Genesis song on an album up to that point, if not out of all of them.
Effusive! First time I heard this, I could not wrap my head around what was happening musically; always found Phil’s fast trills to be distracting. I want to like this more than I do.
