Love this whole thread. There's obviously a lot of us on this discussion who love this band, but it amazes me to see how differently we all love it. By that, I mean which parts of their music people love. For instance, the guy who is essentially leading the discussion thinks Down and Out is both the best rock song Genesis has ever done as well as the best progressive song they've done. Others have commented how they don't even like this song. As for me, it's about a 4 out of 10 as far as Genesis songs go. I like it ok, but there's nothing about it that transports me, nothing that makes me want to listen to it again immediately. To me, the magical Genesis songs are those that can combine their pastoral/acoustic side with Rock n Roll. Nothing pastoral about this song, obviously. It rocks, but when it comes to straight ahead rock and roll, there are are a lot of bands (to me) who do it better. But, nobody combines those elements like Genesis does.
I have to know - where are you getting rock from their most keyboard centric album? Completely serious - I put ATTWT up fairly high but I also keep in mind how much it sounds like a Tony Banks solo album in spots, which is a good thing for me, but one of the weakest "rock" players I know in progressive rock.
Well, “Down and Out” does rock pretty hard, especially Phil’s son of b**** vocals. And I think Banks also thunders not just lyrically but musically in “Burning Rope”. Admittedly, there is nothing on it like Hackett zooming down the frets from speaker to speaker a la “Musical Box”. But those two tracks do rock harder than anything on “Trick” so I can see where Mark is coming from.
A little bit, that's true. But, even Burning Rope has rather safe keys. They never really, well, rock. Phil's work though... oh my, that ROCKS. But man, the closest Tony is to a rock keyboardist for me is for sure, The Musical Box. They destroy that song in the middle.
To me rock isn't just about guitars as such, it did used to be. It is about an internal power that comes out of a song. To me even the gentle songs on this album, yes even the ones with "pastoral" influences all have a combustion point in them where there is a power that comes out and shines. That's where my thoughts on this come from. The Whole of Down and Out. The Chorus (stand up to the blow) of Undertow. The chorus of Snowbound, for all it's imagery and sweetness, has this power produced by the chord usage and the vocals. etc etc .... It may not be rock in the Status quo - Down Down sense, but there is this powerful explosion, there is a raw sense of emotion coming from the vocals and Banks seemed to learn how to make his keyboards express power, rather than technicality and beauty on this album. He still has those aspects, but he has something more. Maybe that doesn't make sense to anyone else, but that's how I hear it
Yeah, to be fair nobody really covers themselves in glory in this performance! Sounds a bit like a dodgy studio demo. However, the most immediately wrong thing with it is definitely Phil on the high notes - I can see how doing that night after night would kill his voice.
Undertow This song starts off beautifully reflective, yet something a bit different for Genesis. We have a beautifully written piece of music played on the electric piano and Phil singing with longing and tenderness. The lyrics start out with a couple sitting warm in their safe space in the world, but when we move to the pre-chorus, the emphasis changes "If this were the last day of your life my friend, tell me what do you think you would do then?" it has this wonderful twist. Even in the opening verse we have the reflection that although we're safe and comfortable in here, what about those out in the elements that may not survive this bitter winter night ... To me this is another really interesting lyric that again is so very different for Genesis, and again, to me, incredibly effective. Sure it's a love song, but it is so much more than just that. As the pre-chorus comes in we get a little taste of power, through the lyrics and the accents put into them from the drums and the music. Then we roll into this brilliant chorus, that even without any power chord guitars has this palpable power and energy. We are presented with the question If it was the last day of your life "what do you think you would do then?" in the pre-chorus and the chorus gives us the options. Will we "Stand up to the blow that fate has struck upon you Make the most of all you still have coming to you Lay down on the ground and let the tears run from you Crying to the grass and trees and heaven finally on your knees Let me live again, let life come find me wanting Spring must strike again against the shield of winter Let me feel once more the arms of love surround me Telling me the danger's past, I need not fear the icy blast again" The delivery, vocally and musically is so bursting with fortitude that I personally find it profoundly moving. For me, even with the clean arpeggiated guitar, this chorus is so powerful and Banks finds a way to make his keyboards provide the power (the rock, I am speaking of) A lot of this comes from the incredibly beautiful chord progressions used here, but the presentation steps up beyond just pretty into this wall of power ... almost as if musically we are seeing the protagonist standing in the face of a metaphorical hurricane, with the wind trying so hard to blow him down, yet he stands with teeth gritted and holds fast. I find this song to be very graphic. I can see the pictures of struggle painted in the chords and words as they put these dramatic pictures of struggle and success? .... Another thing here. After the tour de force drumming of the first track, Collins plays fantastic drums here also. but it is an understated "that's just right" kind of thing, rather than a "wow, did he just get that fill to work" kind of thing. I suppose to some degree one could argue that after the second chorus we could have had a big instrumental section, like it would have had on all their previous albums, but in reality the song benefits from the controlled, powerful, concise construction. If they had pumped it up in size with a powerful instrumental break and repeated the chorus it would have still worked, but it would have lessened the impact (i think) So again for me, the band in this song put together this magnificently concise, emotive and incredibly lyrically and musically powerful piece that I personally find very moving.
Undertow is perhaps my favorite track on this album. I also love A Curious Feeling, which features a song called From The Undertow & gives a glimpse into Tony's original arrangement. The band wisely self-edited to make Undertow much shorter.
I’ll cover Follow You Follow Me first as it preceded the release of And Then There Were Three. My initial thoughts were the guitar intro had a unique sound and was by far my favourite bit of what was a very different song for Genesis. I struggled with its singalonga chorus and melody if I’m honest and the fact that the record became a Radio 2 favourite (record of the week in fact) made it tricky to fully accept being 16 years old. Radio 2 was the station my parents might listen to and to most teenagers back then that would be a difficult pill to swallow. That’s just the way the world was back then. Having witnessed Gabriel’s departure and accepted it as part of the bands need to develop I wasn’t overly bothered by Hackett’s departure and got behind the three piece - at this point Genesis was just about my favourite band - and so I bought the single anyway despite not actually liking it. I think this was the first single I had bought out of a sense of duty rather than being a strong favourite that I wanted to play. But anyway the album was played in full a week or two ahead of the albums release by Alan Freeman and as I was a regular taper of his show I recorded it to a Memorex C90 and played the tape to ruin. I filled up Side 2 with the bands non album tracks I had access to such as It’s Yourself, Spot the Pigeon EP, Happy the Man, Evil Jam etc. As a result of having the album on tape I never actually purchased it until rekindling my interest in the group years later, and I now have a vinyl copy, the Jap mini vinyl and the version in the blue box. It’s the last Genesis album I heard contemporaneously and for that reason I see it half great/half average strongly preferring the following tracks: Down and Out Burning Rope Deep in the Motherlode Many Too Many Say It’s Alright Joe The Lady Lies over the rest which I don’t much like. Songs like Ballad of Big and Scenes From a Nights Dream are among my least favourites from their seventies work and really think they should have not tackled story songs this later in their career. I kept the Genesis flag flying throughout 1978 and 1979 (when I had to buy my own copies of certain titles having relied previously on my older brother’s copies but he left home in October 1978) so I was certainly still a fan of the stuff I knew at that point, but the light of their new music was dimming for me by the time Duke was on the horizon. I didn’t completely abandon Genesis as such but future purchases would be made well down the line - mainly because I knew and socialised with so many dedicated fans that I thought it important to have a deeper knowledge of their stuff. So far as FYFM goes today, I quite like Banks’ solo but still don’t like the song that much. I prefer the acoustic version that they recorded with Ray Wilson if I’m honest which he calls “camp fire music” on the version of it I have.
Undertow - wonderful song. I find the 2007 remix better than the original mix. The backing vocals - always by Collins himslef - are more prominent, and there are sections before the chorus where you can distinctly hear them while on the original mix they were totally muted. I like how they reinforce the chrous as well.
I like everything about Undertow. There are three distinct parts to it and the way they transition into each one (even the progression from the chorus back into part 1) is genius. The chord changes do more than give interest, they give a great flow to the song and it just sounds natural. The lyrics are great too, that chorus that starts with "Stand up to the blow that fate has struck upon you" is magnificent, but I like all of the lyrics. They're reflective, meaningful and very poetic all at the same time. It's a really fun song to sing - I used to do solo carpool karaoke way before it was a "thing" and this was one of the songs I'd belt out like there's no tomorrow. Phil's vocals are perfect here - he's soft when he should be soft and loud when he should be loud. It gives the lyrics the emotional punch they deserve. The background vocals during the second chorus are reminiscent of the ones heard on Afterglow, and I'm not sure if it's Phil overdubbed a dozen times or his voice sampled through a synth, but however they achieved this sound, I really love it. The music is beautiful, one of Tony's better compositions, and the arrangement is perfect. Everybody plays their parts wonderfully, nobody is really dominant, it's a great band sound. I really like Mike's guitar parts on here, they add the perfect touch and Tony's wash of keyboards add all the layers of sonic blankets needed to feel safe in this song that contemplates the meaning of life...and death. Phil's drumming is at a different level as well. Knowing what would come later in his solo career, you can almost hear those dramatic parts get their start here in the little fills he does when the song transitions to a new part (3:38 to 3:40). It's reminding me of that drum breakdown in In The Air Tonight, but not nearly as obvious. Down and Out is my favorite song on the album, but this track gives it a run for the money. A very strong start. Coincidentally, we have almost a half foot of snow on the ground here this morning (and it's still coming down), so I can really relate to this track today! The wife and I have prepared to stay in the entire weekend.
Yep; I do like those extra (or more prominent) backing harmonies on the remix. (Shame about the godawful mastering though.)
Undertow was probably my initial favourite when discovering this album aged 13 - the chorus seemed so profound to me as I started to get to grips with the fact that I wouldn’t be around forever. I have distinct memories of listening to this on my Walkman in the back of a school bus taking us to a careers fair at Earl’s Court* - whilst all the other kids were listening to 2 Unlimited or whatever was on the bus radio. I sometimes think I was a strange child. (*unbeknownst to me, Genesis were playing at Earl’s Court that very night and had I been a little bit older or paid more attention, I might have got a chance to see them before Phil left. Instead all I got was a crumpled flyer for the “Invisible Touch live” single, which I picked up off the floor and hoarded for years like some piece of treasure...)
think I saw them in Göteborg some time in 77 doing military service (well sort of) in Kalmar, so we went to the concert To be honest, dont remember much about it though :-(
Thanks for acknowledging "From The Undertow". A definite highlight of ACF. That first chord is so f'n cool. Jeez, talk about splitting the dark ...
I almost feel like we should tackle “A Curious Feeling” and “Smallcreep’s Day” after ATTWT - they are after all basically what we would have got from a 1979 Genesis album if they hadn’t taken a year off.
