Because those aren't necessarily the reasons why people don't like it. "Goofy lyrics" covers a wide spectrum. Some songs on the PG albums sometimes had "goofy lyrics" but those could also be paired with music that suited them and/or they were only goofy, and not some other bad thing as well. Having more accessible songs is one thing, but having a song that sounds nothing like the rest of the album or anything else that they'd ever made (save for Your Own Special Way, which already took a beating a few pages back) is something else entirely. And for this fan of many '80s Genesis songs, my problem with FYFM isn't that it's a short pop song or that it's about love. It's about how lame the result is and how calculated the execution was. Invisible Touch isn't anywhere near as insipid and cheesy as FYFM.
That argument isn't valid though. Follow You Follow Me wasn't calculated - the lyric was written by Mike, and the music by the entire band. It wasn't even intended as a single - they were surprised as Many Too Many was for the band, the lead single. Label knew it was good. And since when is an album sounding samey throughout it's entire running time ever a good thing? The only record until this point which was victim to that was probably Foxtrot or Trespass but the former was saved by Supper's Ready of course.
Yes, I know the lyric was written by Mike. Not sure how it would take an entire band to write the music to FYFM, but I'm aware of the various Genesis song histories. I don't know how such a song couldn't have been calculated to be a hit single and have decided that I do not believe Phil Collins when he says that it wasn't. I never said it was good for albums to sound samey (in fact, the sameyness of ATTWT is one of its problems, IMO).
Yeah, this was an incredible show. Funny though, I’ve run across opinions that have disparaged the tour for the set list being pop oriented. A laughingly clear indication of bias perceptions.
Yeah, cause Eleventh Earl of Mar, In the Cage, Burning Rope, Ripples, One for the Vine, Squonk, Cinema Show, Dance on a Volcano and Los Endos are just tearing up that singles chart... To quote my favourite film director Tommy Wiseau: “People are very strange these days...”
“Rock” music isn’t defined exclusively by how much keyboard playing exists or doesn’t exist on a piece of work. Remember, “prog” is still rock music. And “prog” tends to get defined beyond how much keyboard playing goes on. I can think of many “prog” bands that are heavily guitar oriented. Tony Banks is not the only one having an influence on this album. That’s the thing about Genesis, it’s a collaborative entity, and that collaboration defines their work.
Of course. I was just listening to Renaissance last night - they're a rock band obviously. They don't really "rock" in the conventional sense though. That's what I mean in terms of Tony's playing specifically. Mike's guitar tone on this album is more rock than Steve's was by this point and Phil is keeping everything moving.
I have listened to my old LPs of W&W and ATTWT over the weekend - something I have not done in quite some time...some observations: they have an obvious similarity in sound, something I have never noticed before (for example: 11th earl of mar would also not be out of place on ATTWT sonically) the absence of Hackett did not change their sound considerably, which just proves that Hackett wasn't given enough room in the band W&W is a great album with no weak spot. Wot Gorilla is great! (Ok, one could argue about "Your own special way"...) ATTWT is a good album but has too many sub-par songs on it (IMO Ballad of Big, Scenes from a night's dream, Say it's alright Joe and honestly I could also do without Deep in the Motherlode! All the other songs are really enjoyable) Follow you follow me feels very tucked on at the end of the LP (but is a good song nonetheless) "The lady lies" would be a much better closing song - is Collins indeed singing something of a "City of gold" in the ending of The Lady Lies? Were they trying to "get big" in the USA with ATTWT with these "western" songs? These just seem out of place somehow, for a band like Genesis. Next I will have to listen to these two albums in 5.1 again...!
Okay, as promised I am giving this album lots more listens as part of giving it its due... I have concluded that it’s better than I gave it credit for, BUT that it’s the first Genesis album since FGTR where there are multiple songs which I just don’t like. Everything else (yes, even The Lamb) has one at most. Anyway, even the ones I don’t like much overall (Snowbound, Say it’s Alright Joe, Scenes from a Night’s Dream) have parts that I do really like. Except Ballad of Big. I’m afraid there’s no rehabilitating this one for me - we’ve spoken a lot about goofy lyrics, and yes Genesis have plenty. All in a Mouse’s Night has goofy lyrics. Heck, even Scenes from a Night’s Dream has “goofy” lyrics (but at least it’s fun). Tony has been ripped mercilessly on this thread for his awkward lyrics (with good reason). But the lyrics to Ballad of Big are just bad. (And we’ll come on to the next song with questionable lyrics soon enough!)
I always took these lyrics as relating to Hollywood western story i.e. acted and therefore not to be taken very seriously?
I think ATTWT was definitely a move to widen their appeal across the pond, especially coming after the more English and pastoral W&W. The fact that they only played one show in the U.K. in support of the album tour tells you where their focus was at this time.
They were getting higher sales numbers each record and the tour for the record was putting them in larger spaces. In fact they did Chicago twice but the Uptown Theater was played because the band felt more comfortable playing a smaller crowd.
Yes Genesis were on a mission in 1978 to break America and the U.K. was largely ignored that year. I don’t think they tailored their material around this though. I think they were moving into simpler material because that’s what they wanted to do. As a three piece they found less resistance from within their ranks and less desire to make things quirky. That must have gotten them onto radio shows that used to avoid the band and in turn this attracted a new wider audience. It was good timing by them and management in effect. But I don’t think Tony Smith nor Tony Stratton-Smith interfered with the music. It was purely driven by the three writers and musicians. I think of other American or American based bands then playing large venues such as Fleetwood Mac, Foreigner and Boston and Genesis were not apeing their style or sound. Genesis - love them or hate them - only ever sounded like Genesis at this point and thankfully for them it went down well in the States.
Snowbound This track starts with a beautiful keyboard melody and then we get some very nice guitar also as the vocal comes in. There is a delicacy about this song, but it is far from insipid. There is a crescendo of emotion leading into the chorus and it is a very effective build. Personally I love Banks Keyboards on this album. He was always going to move with the times, and for better or worse some of the early seventies keyboards were starting to sound dated, and I personally think that he chose very well on this album, which was only a very gentle shift from Wind And Wuthering anyway. I personally really like the lyrics in this song, they seem to reflect a sweetness and innocence. I guess they seem to represent a change of season, or perhaps a metaphorical change of times. Anyhow I think there is a nice poetic element to them and they aren't clumsy, bad or out of place, I like the gliding smooth feel of this track. I like the swelling of dynamics and I just think it is a very effective track. To me so far the album has had two masterpieces in Down and Out and Undertow. We have had a good song that may be somewhat lyrically goofy, but is really just a bit of fun telling a story (whether someone likes the story or not, doesn't really effect me) Then we get this burst of beauty in Snowbound and none of the songs could be considered pop or particularly commercial ... This is just another Genesis album. There may not be any ten minute plud songs, but that was never a prerequisite for a progressive song anyway. Gentle Giant rarely had particularly long songs and in many ways were more progressive than many of their contemporaries.
I'm torn on Sowbound. I love the verses, they're delicate and lovely with thoughtful lyrics and then comes the bombastic chorus with repetitive lyrics that bring the quality down a notch. It goes into the Mediocre column, but is probably the best tune in that category. It's also about a minute too long. Repeating the chorus several times without really changing things up too much seems to be extending the long for the sake of making the song longer, instead of being creative with a coda of sorts.
Verse to Snowbound is quite nice and could have been beautiful if done with a couple twelve string guitars and less synth keys ala Trespass. It is particulatly reminiscent of the Collins sing tunes on their earlier albums. But I am waiting for a compelling chorus and instead get a bit of bombast that is much less catchy than the rest of the songs and repeats multiple times getting bigger each time.
