Gentle Giant are one of those seventies bands that are often missed by many folks. To be honest I only discovered them over the last two or three years via word of mouth. They certainly fit the mould of the Progressive Rock band, and the musicianship of the band was quite outstanding. Sadly they never managed to be a big selling band, but they are certainly a band that is worth investigating if you like your music to be a little more challenging. They have very interesting roots and at one stage Elton John was almost a member of the band. The two decided not to work together due to the fact that Elton's balladry didn't really suit where the band wanted to be. Thankfully Steven Wilson has remixed a few of their albums in 5.1, and all are highly recommended, and I know many of us are hoping for a few more at least to come forward. They were a fantastic live band that blew minds with their rapid change instrument swapping, recorder jams and just about any other musical thing you can imagine. I'm not sure how many people are interested in participating here, but these guys are worth checking out and I am going to run through their albums and songs, because I have read several people ask about them over my time on the forum. I would certainly love input from folks that are much more knowledgeable than I. So if you are a fan please give us your input and correct me if I am off on any details so we can shape this into a useful thread for anyone that is interested in the band. Please stay with the album/song we are on, so that we have some order and continuity. Cheers, Mark
Some Background Gentle Giant were an English progressive rock band active between 1970 and 1980. The band were known for the complexity and sophistication of its music and for the varied musical skills of its members. All of the band members, except Malcolm Mortimore, were multi-instrumentalists. Although not commercially successful, they did achieve a cult following.[1] The band's onetime stated aim was to "expand the frontiers of contemporary popular music at the risk of becoming very unpopular",[2] although this stance was to alter significantly with time. Gentle Giant's music was considered complex even by progressive rock standards, drawing on a broad swath of music including folk, soul, jazz, and classical music. Unlike many of their progressive rock contemporaries, their "classical" influences ranged beyond the Romantic and incorporated medieval, baroque, and modernist chamber music elements. The band also had a taste for broad themes for their lyrics, drawing inspiration not only from personal experiences but from philosophy and the works of both François Rabelais and R. D. Laing. In 2015 they were recognised with the lifetime achievement award at the Progressive Music Awards.[3] The core of what was to become Gentle Giant comprised three brothers: Phil Shulman (born 1937), Derek Shulman (born 1947) and Ray Shulman (born 1949). The brothers were of Scottish-Jewish descent. Phil and Derek were born in Glasgow, Scotland, in The Gorbals, which was then a notorious slum. The family moved to Portsmouth, England, where Ray was born. Their father was an army musician turned jazz trumpeter, who continued his musical work in Portsmouth. He encouraged his sons to learn various instruments; and Phil, Derek, and Ray all became multi-instrumentalists. During the early 1960s, Derek and Ray became interested in playing rhythm-and-blues and formed a band together. Phil — originally acting as a manager figure in order to look after his much younger brothers — eventually became a band member himself. (We grew up in a) house full of musicians and instruments... I started learning trumpet when I was five just because it was there and then took up violin when I was seven. We were made to practice for an hour a day at least, when we really wanted to go out and play. I suppose it was a good thing we were really, and eventually I wanted to do it anyway... I wasn't formally taught at all. Ray Shulman on the musical upbringing of the Shulman brothers[4] By 1966, the Shulmans' band — initially called The Howling Wolves, then The Road Runners — had taken on the name of Simon Dupree and the Big Sound and was pursuing more of a soul/pop direction. As lead singer and frontman, Derek Shulman took on the 'Simon Dupree' pseudonym while Phil played saxophone and trumpet, and youngest brother Ray played guitar and violin. (Both Ray and Phil also played trumpet and sang backing vocals for the group which, during its lifetime, briefly featured the future Elton John as pianist as well as recording a single with Dudley Moore as guest). Signing to the EMI record label, Simon Dupree and the Big Sound produced several non-charting singles before being pushed by their management and label in the direction of psychedelia. This resulted in the UK Top 10 hit "Kites" in the autumn of 1967 (and the release of the Without Reservation album later in the year). Success only served to frustrate the Shulman brothers, who considered themselves to be blue-eyed soul singers and felt that their change of style was insincere and insubstantial. Derek Shulman was later to describe "Kites" as "utter ****."[4] The Shulmans' opinion was confirmed, in their eyes, by the successive failure of follow-up singles to "Kites". Attempting to escape their new image, they released a pseudonymous double A-side single in late 1968 as The Moles - "We Are the Moles (parts 1 & 2)". This compounded their identity crisis as the single was subsequently caught up in a rumour that The Moles were, in fact, The Beatles recording under a different name and with Ringo Starr as lead singer. The rumour was eventually debunked by Pink Floyd leader Syd Barrett, who outed Simon Dupree and the Big Sound as the band behind the record. In 1969, the Shulman brothers finally dissolved the group in order to escape the pop music environment that had frustrated them. Surprisingly, they did not return directly to rhythm and blues or soul, but chose to pursue a more complicated direction. Ray Shulman later stated "We knew we couldn't continue with the musicians we'd had before. We weren't interested in the other musicians in the band — they couldn't contribute anything. We had to teach them what to do. It got rather heavy when we could play drums better than the drummer, and even on record we were doing more and more of it with overdubs. It got stupid having a band like (that). The first thing was to get some musicians of a higher standard."[4] Gentle Giant was formed in 1970 when the Shulman brothers teamed up with two other multi-instrumentalists, Gary Green (guitar, mandolin, recorder etc.) and Kerry Minnear (keyboards, vibraphone, cello etc.), plus drummer Martin Smith, who had previously drummed for Simon Dupree and the Big Sound. The classically trained Minnear had recently graduated from the Royal College of Music with a degree in composition, and had played with the band Rust. Green was essentially a bluesplayer and had never worked with a band above the semi-professional level, but adapted readily to the demanding music of the new band. The Shulman brothers, meanwhile, settled into typically multi-instrumental roles of their own: Derek on saxophone and recorder; Ray on bass and violin; Phil on saxophone, trumpet, and clarinet. It was like this big funnel, really. We all had these varied influences, whether it be pop, classical, rock, jazz, or whatever, and we just came together and created what we did. A lot of the bands who were doing prog rock back then were doing long songs that in many cases were just filler, but we never tried to impress anyone with our talents, maybe we were just trying to impress each other! What to us just seemed like some clever songs really touched a lot of people it seems, which never fails to amaze me. Derek Shulman on Gentle Giant's writing approach[5] The new band also featured three lead vocalists. Derek Shulman sang in a tough rhythm-and-blues style and generally handled the more rock-oriented vocals; Phil Shulman handled the more folk-or-jazz-influenced songs; and Kerry Minnear (who had a particularly delicate voice) sang the lighter folk and chamber-classical lead vocals. Minnear did not sing lead vocals at live concerts, because of his inability to support and project his voice at a level suitable for live amplification (Derek and Phil Shulman handled Minnear's lead vocal parts when the band played live). It has been reported that Elton John unsuccessfully auditioned for lead vocalist with the newly formed group.[6] According to a booklet that was included in their first album, the band's name was a reference to a fictional character, a "gentle giant" that happens upon a band of musicians and is enthralled with their music. The character is reminiscent of those from the Renaissance tales of François Rabelais.[7] From the start, Gentle Giant was a particularly flexible band because of the exceptionally broad musical skills of its members. One Gentle Giant album would list a total of forty-six instruments in the musician credits — all of which had been played by group members — and five of the six members sang, enabling the band to write and perform detailed vocal harmony and counterpoint. The band's approach to songwriting was equally diverse, blending a wide variety of ideas and influences whether they were considered commercial or otherwise.
Gentle Giant The Bands debut album came out in 197o and these days is considered to have been fairly badly recorded. I guess it is, but it certainly doesn't sound awful and the music on it more than makes up for any deficiencies in sound. There is a very broad spectrum of music on here, and like many of the progressive bands their debut was just a drop in the ocean of what they would actually do in terms of technical proficiency and structural difficulty. The writing is excellent and the band certainly had their own sound from the start. The album was not originally released in the US, and first appeared in the US and Canada with the Three Friends album cover. Gary Green – lead guitar, 12 string guitar (2, 4), backing vocals Kerry Minnear – Hammond organ (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7), Minimoog (3, 5, 7), Mellotron (1, 6), electric (3), acoustic (2, 5) and honky-tonk (4) piano, tympani (tracks 1, 3), xylophone (4), vibraphone (3), cellos (2), bass (2), backing and lead (3, 6) vocals Derek Shulman – lead (1, 2, 3, 5, 6) and backing vocals, bass (4) Phil Shulman – trumpet (1, 2, 3, 6, 7), alto (3) and tenor (5) saxophones, descant (6), treble (6) and tenor (6) recorder, backing and lead (2, 3, 4, 5) vocals Ray Shulman – bass (1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7), electric (5, 6, 7) and acoustic (5) guitar, violins (2, 4), triangle (2), backing vocals Martin Smith – drums (tracks 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 7), brushed snare drum (track 4) Paul Cosh – tenor horn (1) Claire Deniz – cello (4) Roy Baker – recording engineer George Underwood – cover artist Tony Visconti – producer Side one 1. "Giant" Derek Shulman 6:24 2. "Funny Ways" Phil and Derek Shulman 4:23 3. "Alucard" Phil Shulman, Derek Shulman, Kerry Minnear 6:01 4. "Isn't it Quiet and Cold?" Phil Shulman 3:53 Side two 1. "Nothing at All" Phil and Derek Shulman 9:08 2. "Why Not?" Derek Shulman, Kerry Minnear 5:31 3. "The Queen" (instrumental) 1:40
Giant Starting with a keyboard slowly rising in volume and joined with a pumping bass, the song then explodes with a semi-hard rock sound. The thing is though, even in this framework you instantly hear that these guys aren't going to be following the very popular heavy blues that was around at the time. We have a couple of verses with quite intricate instrumental lines in between the rock vocal sections. We also get an interlude of sorts that changes up the sound and feel completely and then we explode back into the song. We then move into a mellow, yet pulsating instrumental section. This then breaks back into the original theme and takes us through the rest of the song. I loved this track from the first time I heard it, and it made its mark on me as a very different band that could certainly give me hours of listening pleasure .... and it only got better and better.
Nice to see an album by album thread on this talented band. They may be my favorite Brit prog band and see regular rotation in my house. Funny ways is a favorite. This album was just the beginning of some excellent music.
Ok. There is a rough introduction to the band and the first track off the first album. Please join in and let us know how you came to the band. What your feelings toward the first album are. Please fill in any important gaps that I may have left there also. Cheers, Mark
One of my favorite bands. Funny Ways, Alucard. Nothing At All, and Isn't It Quiet and Cold are great tunes. Well, they all are. I haven't listened to them in a while, as I played them to death in the 70s. I first discovered Acquiring the Taste when I was working in a record store in 73-74. I don't remember if I read about them or if someone turned me on to them, but that LP made me a convert. I saw them 3 or maybe 4 times, starting with the Power and Glory Tour. I'm looking forward to this thread as an excuse to revisit those songs.
Never a truer word spoken. I'm now listening to Octopus. The AxA thread is a cool idea, I'd love one for Focus but fear this may be copyrighted.
Great idea for a thread and great introductory work Mark! "and first appeared in the US and Canada with the Three Friends album cover" It's the other way around in fact. You probably meant with the US Three Friends album cover... ...which is the S/T debut album cover!! I know it's confusiong as hell. It may help to take a look at the gatefold photo of the band from their 2nd album "Acquiring The Taste" to see what drummer Martin Smith looked like. He is well depicted on the S/T first album painting, and will have quit the band by the time of the recording of the 3rd album "Three Friends".
Speaking as a French Canadian, what was cool about it in the early 70s was that they were hugely successful here for a nascent, obscure prog act. Packed the Université de Montréal 5,000 seats sports center two times in a row (October '72, then March '73), then Donald K. Donald booked them at the Forum in January '75, and they sold something like 8,000 to 10,000 seats IIRC... playing by then stuff like So Sincere! My first contact was back in late '72, through an impressive B&W photo spread of that October show in the local music paper. The reporter was raving yes, but - I supposed because I was a Jethro Tull nut - I was most impressed by their looks! But what really got to me was the next thing I knew, CHOM-FM got an ad going about that upcoming, come-back concert next March. I remember this moment distinctly because this is where I fell in love with the band. It started with the opening, dreamy strains from River (from the then-new import album "Octopus"), over which the announcer said "And now [or "Ladies and Gentlemen..."], the sweet sound of Gentle Giant!", then bang, that rocking violin/wah guitar riff broke out... I got my ticket for the show in no time! I still think River is one of their most amazing songs and get shivers when I play it... (But I digress!) By the time that concert rolled in, Phil Shulman had left the band, but they were still great, even though each member of the new quintet had slightly more weight on his shoulders in the live setting. ...Hey you asked for it! :O)
The S/T debut is great but not one of my favorites. Some influences can be detected, from King Crimson for instance. And I'm not wild about those love songs. I enjoy the opening track and always had a great kick out of Isn't It Quiet and Cold?... even though I've never understood the presence of that particular one in their early live sets! For crying out loud did they play it in front of the Black Sabbath crowds when they were opening for the band in America??
and I am pleased to get it. Like I say I on;y discovered the band in the last three years and would now rank them among my favourite bands. I obviously never saw them live due to that, but even if I had known them earlier, I only started my journey of musical discovery in 1980, so I would still have missed out on them. Great info. It's nice to know that they had a big following somewhere. I always find it disheartening when obviously brilliant bands are completely unknown. I certainly didn't know that Canada had gotten behind them ... Cheers
They were doing good early on also in Italy, and perhaps Germany too. (Fantastic infos to get on the touring history pages from the official GG site BTW.) So good in Italy, I guess, that "Octopus" was released there by Vertigo a couple of months in advance of the UK.
I, and some others I suspect, picked up on them back in the 70s because their LPs were coming out as those cool Vertigo spirals, alongside the Sabs, Heep, Jade Warrior, Colosseum etc etc
When I heard they had opened for Sabbath it was bewildering. I can only assume someone heard Alucard and completely misunderstood what the band were about. I like the first album but certainly it is not their best. I think it works as a good introduction to the band and the type of things they would be trying. It gives you a chance to get used to the vocalists and their styles also
It's a shame their back-catalogue is spread over multiple companies etc. I've been getting their main albums in the last couple of months (I've had the CD/BluRay Steven Wilson sets for some time), but some of their stuff has been reissued on Alucard, while other stuff was issued in 35th anniversary editions with new (ugly) artwork and live-bonustracks. Some of them have cardboard sleeves, some have mini-LP sleeves, some just jewelcases, some of them have a 5.1 DVD with a quad-mix on it etc etc. I hate getting back catalogues like that. I want my CD-spines to align dammit!
Someone new and buying second-hand ought to be careful with the "In'terview" 35th ann. edition CD because the first run was a "fake mono" one! Upon release I got one of those and complained. They sent me a correct stereo one, kindly autographed by Derek Shulman.
They were label mates then, which might explain it. Even still with their fifth and sixth albums (plus one stand-alone single), they were on Black Sabbath's WWA label in the UK. I think Ozzy liked their music. Gary Green (from GG) said Ozzy was nice to them while on tour.
I first heard of Gentlr Giant when I saw them supporting the film about Hendrix, Jimi Plays Berkeley. About 1971.As an eighteen year old they were very strange but I have grow to love them
I use to sometimes see the first album cover mixed into my older brother's friends collections, but I never listened to the music growing up. I don't ever recall hearing their music on the Boston-area radio stations in the 70s, but I do recall they were opening for a band I wanted to see (but never did) in 77-78 and I can't remember the name of the band, but the name "Gentle Giant" stuck in my memory. I discovered their music in the late 90s thanks to the resurgence of interest in progressive rock at that time. I now have all their CDs and enjoy most of them (their last 2 are not to my taste).
