Gentle Giant - Album by album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Oct 23, 2018.

  1. Our suggestion was only for a cheap way to get the alternate mix.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  2. dennis the menace

    dennis the menace Forum Veteran

    Location:
    Montréal
    As impressive as that song was when played live, I always preferred the studio version because of the "rockin` fugue". So out of context...but irresistible at the same time.
     
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  3. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

  4. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    No, that's the first pressing. Album mix, not so good audio quality. All OTHER matrix #s are the rough/fold down/something mix.

    That's more like it! This will be the rough/fold down/something mix, if that matrix # is correct. Yes, double check it with the seller.
     
  5. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    OK then. "On Reflection".

    I think BOTH the album & live arrangements are great. The middle section sung by Kerry on the album paints a nice, mellow picture for me. It's warm and relaxing. And yes, the rocking section at the end is fantastic. And then the live arrangement adds a touch of whimsy that I don't seem to get from the album version. Both are perfectly executed and I think the fact that they were able to pull this off live, especially the multi-vocal parts WHILE playing their instruments, is nothing short of extraordinary!
     
  6. It is!

    That new theme in 6/8 they play live, lastly, right to the end, has always sounded to me like some classical quote, but I've never been able to put my finger on it... Something like an old hymn from Elgar perhaps...
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
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  7. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    That new live section is actually the same theme as the middle part from the album arrangement which has Kerry's vocals. But naturally, in true GG fashion, it's done up quite differently! Maybe that's why it sounds so naggingly familiar. I didn't even catch on to this myself until a couple of years ago!
     
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  8. ^ No, not the Kerry song from the middle section redone by the full band, but the theme starting at the 6:11 mark:

     
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I had never actually tied it into an existing piece, but it certainly has a grand feel about it. It definitely alludes to a big classical composition ... In fact as a whole band, I reckon Giant are probably one of the few bands, that I would feel comfortable sitting amongst the old school classical guys, from a compositional perspective.
     
  10. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    Ah yes. In my head, it ended with the same theme as the beginning; sorry.

    I really like that little ending bit, but if it's a classical theme, it's not one I'm familiar with. I hope someone else on this thread knows!
     
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  11. dennis the menace

    dennis the menace Forum Veteran

    Location:
    Montréal
    Well said.
     
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  12. mx20

    mx20 Enthusiast

    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    That 6/8 ending section of On Reflection was my "way in" with GG; the live album was my first GG album, and I was underwhelmed the first time or two I spun it, but I noticed that refrain from On Reflection sticking in my head... And my obsession grew from that point!
     
  13. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Free Hand
    The title track starts with a nice piece of piano that gets harmonised with the guitar and they go through a series of modulations and lead into the main musical theme and first verse. The keyboards at the start ( again i think they are a mildly distorted D6 ) are fantastic, with that funky quirky rhythm which really start the song rolling on here.
    The band burst in and Derek lays down a really good vocal that is, again possible to translate as the end of a romantic relationship, but more likely a direct reference to leaving the old record company.
    There is a really cool instrumental break down with the guitar and keyboard doing a semi call and response theme. After this we have a slight change in the chordal base for essentially the second verse. Then we get another little instrumental section with the keys and the guitar and bass playing against each other and maintaining that awesome rhythm.
    There is so much music in this song it is quite remarkable.
    Then we move into the second verse proper and there is a section at the end that has a return to the intro theme with some really heavy staccato chord and drum pounds with Derek emphasising the "gonna change my mind" (as in what would make you think I was gonna ....)
    Gary lays some nice understated guitar bits in the instrumental section and Ray is playing some fantastic bass (is he one of the great overlooked bass players?) Kerry has some fun with his keyboards in here also. Then a dreamy type chord pattern comes in on the keyboards that gets interrupted by that "change my mind" section a couple of times ..... I mean this really is such an amazing piece of writing. This has everything and maybe the kitchen sink.
    We move back into the final verse. I really think Derek lays down one of his best vocals on this track .... with another riff we get an abrupt finish, which seems to signify the abrupt end with the record company.
    This is just another fantastic song on this fantastic album. I love it!

     
  14. On reflection, Free Hand is a great rocker too.
     
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  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    nice :)
     
  16. Free Hand... For all the Derek Shulman critics out there, who else could have sung a thing like that? Tom Jones on acid?

    There are so many things going on in this fantastic piece - one of the most amazing ones of their entire catalogue to me - I'm at a loss for words, to say nothing of musicological science! I can't think of a single other band who could make music so danceable and funky and at the same time so demanding both harmonically and rythmically (the sub-division figures inside the "dance beats")...

    During that distinct, groovy rocking instrumental section starting at 1:51 (right after "Why should I look back..."), featuring a cowbell or woodblock, when the thing gets modulated a fourth up, Kerry does a serial kind of thing with the duration of his riff chords... quite exciting!

    I have always missed the strange, dreamy waltz from the middle, in the live re-arrangement (which I have never really dug). Not just because it's beautiful in itself, but for all the crazy stuff to come it prepares the album listener to... Those loud interruptions like opposite musical characters fighting one another until the rock one takes over.. . Leading to one of my favorite "John Weathers moments"... Those explosions of his which have nothing to do with virtuosity, and everything with intensity and involvement in the music...

    ...As you can see, I like Free Hand!
     
  17. dennis the menace

    dennis the menace Forum Veteran

    Location:
    Montréal
    The best example of the incredible musical capacity of this amazing band...and what a performance by Ray Shulman and John Weathers on that one. No other band of that era was playing at this level. The best song of the album IMHO.
     
  18. The compilers of the Progressive Rock Box Set Supernatural Fairy Tales must have agreed with you as Free Hand was the selected choice for inclusion in this excellent collection.
     
  19. I like to think that Frank Zappa dug this track in particular, from the album he is reported (see p. 19, post #461) to have played before at least one concert as walk-in music, in 1975...
     
  20. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    I also thought that. Even without that info. It has a lot of things in it that I think would appeal to Zappa's sense of musicality
     
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  21. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Time To Kill
    We start of with some percussive sounds and a synth noise that is interrupted by a guitar riff and an unusual drum rhythm. This moves into a strange disjointed section that then moves into the song proper. Again we get this incredible fugue-like musical structure that sits on top of an unusual time signature.
    With all of this unusual musical structure the band still manages to make this song sound singable and puts a nice melody in there as well.
    There is a staccato breakdown at the end of the verse and we then roll into the next verse, followed again by an unusual staccato breakdown.
    We then get a vocal sung over just the bass, but as we reach the last syllable of the vocal line the whole band comes in and we get a musical crescendo that includes some fine backing vocals. This section repeats and modulates into an instrumental section and then into the intro section again, and then back into the verse section.
    This is a very unusual song to say the least, structure-wise, but it is actually so listenable and cool, that until you try and break it down like this, you may not notice just how unusual it is.
    For my part, another great song on this great album.

     
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  22. The "percussion sounds" and "synth" at the beginning are I believe a "fied recording" of a game of Pong, an electronic tennis game. When I started hitting a couple of local taverns with my college pals - I came of age not long after this album's release - there were games like that at certain tables. This for the youngster readers! :O)

    Underneath its commercial varnish (the singalong quality of the verses plus the backing vocals and how they are recorded), this song is just amazing, partly for some of the reasons the preceding track is. It's adventurous and challenging.

    Even with a (probable) click track, it's hard for me to fathom how the real drums and the real piano (no MIDI!) from the weird introduction can be that much in synch... Amazing!
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2018
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  23. dennis the menace

    dennis the menace Forum Veteran

    Location:
    Montréal
    Definitely the sound of PONG to begin the song. The mere fact we remember that game (and table games no less...) does not make us any younger.

    GG was probably at their peak musically during the Free Hand era. The performance of each musician was spotless on every track, Time To Kill included. Their music was indeed very challenging. The only problem I have with Time To Kill is with Derek Shulman`s vocals or the way they were recorded. Were they double-tracked ? For the rest, just another great song.
     
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  24. abzach

    abzach Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    My top 3 GG album:
    1, Acquiring the Taste
    2, Free Hand
    3, Octopus
     
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  25. ^I'd only replace #2 with tP&tG... but not by much!
     
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