Gentle Giant. . Whatever happened (merged several similar threads)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Francis A Carr, Jul 19, 2017.

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  1. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    That is true. He also signed GWAR.
     
  2. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I believe that refers to their first drummer (only on the first two albums).
     
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  3. Dok

    Dok Senior Member

    Last I heard the Three Friends Steven Wilson remix was unlikely.

    From the liner notes to the new 'Songs From the Wood' edition Jakko Jakszyk "explains how he used 21st century technology, and a sprinkling of his own creative wizardry, to resolve a 1977 audio/video conundrum."

    "And I have to thank the delightful Ray Shulman (with me being a Gentle Giant fan, something of a childhood hero of mine) who was largely responsible for the sync of the original audio to the original film - not to mention being my own personal 'Samaritan' when I was tearing my hair out."
     
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  4. ...and they've been doing a fantastic job of it! Only problem is Gary now has a heart condition, and, perhaps, is still recovering from a heart attack of a couple of years back. Here is hoping for a full recovery! Nice guy!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  5. I just listened to this for the first time ever and wondered who did that. Since I had never heard the album in any form, those animations are a big part of the experience for me.
     
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  6. I believe Derek was also involved with the international (or American) career of Montreal-based New Wave band Men Without Hats, though I never knew precisely in what capacity...
     
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  7. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    It's a big part of the experience for me now as well. Hearing that album in 5.1 was like hearing it again for the first time, and the visuals are perfect!
     
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  8. Francis A Carr

    Francis A Carr Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Well not 40yr they played tower. Theater 1979/80
     
  9. Yes, a highly recommended release.
     
  10. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Most definitely! As a side note, I was born in Massachusetts, man! I have no idea what I'm doing living in Nashville, TN at this point!
     
  11. Digging good country music and milder winters I expect.:)
     
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  12. Lownote30

    Lownote30 Bass Clef Addict

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    Good country music? Not here! Mild winters sometimes, but brutal summers!
     
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  13. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    What is Freehand Z? Freehand is my favorite album by them, not sure what you mean by Freehand Z :confused:

    Are you thinking of Steely Dan?

    38 is almost 40 in my book.
     
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  14. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    My Mum's best friend Mary knew the boys Mum Mrs. Shulman who lived near her in Fratton Portsmouth Hampshire !

    The three Shulman brothers Phil, Derek, and Ray became Simon Dupree and The Big Sound (Derek was thus 'Simon Dupree') with three other guys and did local clubs, seafront cruises by Sealink around the Solent near the Isle of Wight

    later after an album on Parlophone 'Without Resevations' - with positive sleeve notes by D.J. Alan 'Fluff' Freeman - and a few singles - 'I See The Light', 'Daytime Nightime' (written by Manfreds drummer Mike Hugg), 'Reservations', 'Thinkin' About My Life', the hilarious 'Broken Hearted Pirates' (!) and 'For Whom The Bell Tolls' (a minor UK chart hit) etc with the psychedelic flavoured 'Kites' (which Derek utterly loathed) being by far their biggest hit in 1967 the three brothers later formed GG in 1970

    Working in Abbey Road, produced by Dave Paramor (a relative of Cliff/Shadows producer Norrie Paramor) Simon Dupree's Parlophone records often featured instruments The Beatles were also using from mellotrons to brass instruments ...plus unexpected instruments like vibes, trumpets, glockenspiel etc that GG would later also employ...

    The Shulman brothers teamed up with Kerry Minnear a trained musician keyboardist from a place named Stouerminster Newton (I think - well something like that! ) and from auditons picked excellent guitarist Gary Green - who was the only axeman to request time to TUNE UP his guitar before doing his audition....which made a strong first impression on them !

    Martin Smith played drums on that first self titled GG album (produced by Tony Visconiti on Vertigo) and I think the second (without digging my albums out) 'Aquiring The Taste'

    Malcolm Mortimore briefly took over for 'Three Friends' but was then in a bike accident - Welsh drummer John Weathers (I think from 'Eyes of Blue') then became main longtime GG Drummer thereafter

    Kerry Minnear had a flat in the next road to mine then - Stubbington Avenue - and when I worked as a school holiday job in bike and car accessories shop 'Halfords' Phil Shulman once came in to buy a bike for a child (presumably his) - my mate Chris was first assistant and a mad GG fan and he was thrilled to serve Phil - this was around 1973 when Phil had just dropped out of GG

    Phil was about ten years older than Ray and Derek and had begun feeling the strain of touring plus wanted to move into teaching I believe...

    GG thus lost it's brass section after their fourth Vertigo album 'Octopus'' in 1973 and while Derek played sax they largely dropped the brass from 'In A Glass House' on WWA Records and then 'Power and The Glory'

    GG were very big in Europe and I think in Canada too - but in the UK despite music writers such as Phil Sutcliffe pushing them they never quite got the big commercial breakthrough their incredibly imaginative and musically ambitious works deserved - often they were unfairly tagged by disinterested music writers as just; 'Another Genesis' which when you consider the three brothers were at no.5 in the UK with 'Kites' in 1967 must have been very galling for them...

    supposedly the advent of punk affected them a lot - tho' NOT gig wise or records wise and their unique brand of music moving from electric rock to modern jazz to madrigal vocal harmonies all within a song was just TOO COMPLEX for the average rock musician let alone young punk rocker to comprehend ! (something like handing a caveman a mobile phone...)

    Jethro Tull's Ian Anderson - a musician and writer of some considerable complexity himself - once said of the supporting band GG;

    'How do these guys remember all this stuff...??

    minus any BIG HIT single unlike say their contemporaries; Jethro Tull, Genesis, Yes, Moodies, Pink Floyd, Procol Harum, Supertramp etc GG were forced to tour relentlessly and rely solely on their fine albums to carry them thus they never quite achieved the major standing their musical ability deserved - 'I'm Turning Around' picked up a lot of UK Radio airplay but sadly failed to become a big hit for them...

    Chrysalis Records clearly wanted them to move towards a more commercial angle thus the focus of the music became more narrow from 'The Missing Piece' album which saw a more straightforward approach on generally shorter songs being utilised - not always GG's greatest strength as a band it has to be said - and the last album 'Civilian' saw them seemingly at musical odds somewhat (tho' in retrospect it's not bad at all...)

    apparently the official explanation was that after a decade on the road by 1980 keyboardist/arranger/co-lead vocalist Kerry Minnear (a key musical backbone of the band) began to tire and handed in his resignation

    - thinking they just couldn't possibly replace him plus both Derek and Ray by then were also looking elsewhere re their careers and lives (Derek moved to New York I think) they decided to retire GG while still very much a group in demand for shows and still a recording band...

    an honorable ten years of truly adventurous progressive music with a scope that encompassed electric rock, acoustic folk, avante garde, modern jazz, complex vocal choral harmony work, and very perceptive song writing and ambitious complex song structuring that often left most music critics completely baffled...and totally unable to catergorise at all - thus left music writers hiding behind the safe; 'just another Genesis' blanket dismissal line whenever GG's unique music crossed their paths

    the studio albums GG released over 1970-1980 plus a good live double set 'Playing The Fool' are well worth investigating if you want 'something completely different' (as Monty Python would say) that is adventurous, ambitious, and expertly played on so many differing instruments and sung in complex male choral harmony parts
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  15. stereoptic

    stereoptic Anaglyphic GORT Staff

    Location:
    NY
    I saw them in concert many times during the 1970's (starting with the Glass House era). Amazing musicians, it seemed like each of them could play each instrument. At one point they had a large sign on stage that read: "PRETENTIOUS ", evidently mocking some criticism of their style.
     
  16. Thanks for the happenstance details and great GG runthrough! Octopus was first released not in 1973 but in the fall of 1972 though.
     
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  17. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    yeah that's right of course - it was 'In A Glass House' on WWA in 1973 (which was deemed a bit controversial at the time with it's 'breaking glass' part ! lol) - my albums are all up in the attic somewhere...must dig 'em out !

    There have been a lot of GG music put out on CD, also Simon Dupree

    b/w footage of Simon Dupree & co on German 'Beat Club' exists doing 'Thinking About My Life'

    a Simon Dupree compilation LP was titled 'Amen' (I think without checking) on See For Miles Records which by now must be quite rare too

    'Pretentions' was also the title of a 2LP compilation as was 'In The Giant's Steps'

    they were always just being dismissed as 'pretentious' (the blanket term thrown at all 'progressive' acts back then- like The Stones got that silly 'wrinkly rockers' obligatory press tag) hence they used it as a logo - perhaps unwisely in retrospect, maybe it's best to simply IGNORE critics completely...

    'Free Hand' and 'Interview' were very creatively strong Chrysalis albums for them but I suspect that then being forced to narrow their musical scope from 'The Missing Piece' onwards - with songs like; 'Two Weeks in Spain' etc - probably created a lot of artistic frustrations within the far more musically ambitious band and they did well to soldier on to 1980 !
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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  18. gojikranz

    gojikranz Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sacramento
    love Gentle Giant the way the players mostly disappeared after is kind of interesting though. the scraping the barrel boxset contains a good sampling of the work some of them did post giant as well as a semi reunion song (none of it is all that great but you can't say the did not warn you with that boxset title). sadly never got to see them or the three friends project from gary green. do hope he will get better though and be able to do some more.

    there is supposed to be a massive boxset coming soon they released a survey on what things people would like included in it awhile back so if you do feel like diving in in a big way you may want to wait for that to get it all in one swoop.
     
  19. I have always regretted greatly having missed (snubbed would be a better word, with regard to how I felt about them by then...) their last appearance in Montreal, in '80 or '81. GG had always been huge in the province of Quebec, headlining here since the fall of '72, and I'm sure it must have felt a little special for them to bid adieu to this particular place, where they had made so many friends over the years.

    And also their setlist must have been special at that point. I've never been a fan of Civilian, but hearing some of those songs live would have been cool anyway.
     
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  20. Vangro

    Vangro Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    If you check his production credits you'll find Ray Shulman ended up working with various artists who were 'young punk rockers' at some point or other. Also he's credited as playing on an album by Flux, who started off as anarcho-punks Flux of Pink Indians, a band (in)famous for the title of their second album - which I couldn't possibly post here for fear of being flung off the forum.
     
  21. I think Simon Dupree sounded a lot like The Moles.:D
     
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  22. no.nine

    no.nine (not his real name)

    Location:
    NYC
    I don't think anyone mentioned yet that after GG, John Weathers went on to drum for Man. Never could get into them so I don't know for how long or on which albums, but he didn't totally disappear. Unfortunately, he hasn't been able to play for quite some time now because of health issues. :shake: What a truly brilliant and undersung drummer.
     
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  23. wildstar

    wildstar Senior Member

    Location:
    ontario, canada
    How are they teasing a potential reunion? That facebook post only says they're discussing further SW remix projects. The two younger Shulman brothers have been on record for years/decades saying its never going to happen. Not because of any personal issues, but mostly because of the massive amount of time and effort it would take for them to just get their playing abilities back in shape enough to handle the material properly.

    Plus if Phil is pushing 80, then the younger brothers are something like 68 and 70 - nobody's getting any younger.

    Plus - as others have said - John Weathers and Garry Green are currently unavailable to tour for health reasons - so assuming Phil is out due to age, that's half the band removed from the equation.

    Given all that, if they haven't done it by now....it seems kind of delusional to think the chances are in any way *increasing* over time.
     
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  24. Sax-son

    Sax-son Forum Resident

    Location:
    Three Rivers, CA
    I was lucky enough to see Gentle Giant on their Civilian tour. They played the Roxy Theater in Hollywood and they absolutely killed it. They pretty much played selections that spanned their whole career in that show. Nobody left there feeling ripped off that's for sure.
     
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  25. It's great to know that they went out with style! Had you seen them before that one?

    Strange to think that at some point during that tour, aboard the van, bus or whatever which took them from one gig to the next, they looked each other in the eye and said this is it, we're through... (Derek Shulman's account)

    I recall right where I was standing in our flat the night that CHOM-FM announced during their rock news bulletin that Gentle Giant had split... I wasn't into their thing any more, but that was still somehow a shock; I had loved that band so much... Still do!
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
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