George/Paul dust-up during the Get Back sessions

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Joel1963, Jul 10, 2018.

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  1. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    Downhill, eh? Have you heard his playing post-1968? It's MUCH improved over the '62-'67 era.
     
  2. Fivebyfive

    Fivebyfive Forum Resident

    Location:
    East coast, US
    I don't see the Beatles as guys who ever felt the need to use "tact" with each other. They were used to rough talk. John Lennon wasn't exactly known for his patience. There's that well-known audio of John snapping at Paul, "What are you doing?" in 63 or 64 when Paul messes up his bass line. And that other audio of them early on where John says "do it slower" and Paul snaps "NO" and orders "Clean beginning now." Not much tact in either of those remarks. This is how they were.

    And I've made the argument before, based on comments from their first engineer, Norm Smith, that Paul ran the show in the studio from the beginning, more than John ever did.
     
  3. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    I wonder how effective Lennon was in the supposed "punch up".
    Heroin and fighting don't usually mix. But then again, I've not been involved with either.......
     
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  4. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    When George couldn't get a solo down for "Taxman" that the band all liked, Paul stepped in and fired off an awesome solo. That's tough to take for the band's soloist/lead guitarist, who's also the youngest member. 6 months later George all but gives up rock guitar for more than a year to focus on sitar and Indian music and starts writing songs on the organ....

    I'm sure every time after that when Paul told George how to play on one of his tunes, George never forgot "Taxman" and a twinge of jealousy/territorialism arose within George.

    Paul could have been more tactful, but it's Paul's song.

    On George's song, he's then allowed to tell Paul how to play bass or sing harmony, etc... That's just how things have to go or else you have creative chaos.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018
  5. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    Paul has since, at least in the "Anthology" video, been regretful of the way he treated George about his offerings/contributions to Paul's songs at the time.

    The fallout was brewing for a while. George had just spent time with The Band (and Dylan, though I don't know if both at the same time) and saw how supposedly harmonic, organic and democratic The Band's approach to arranging their songs seemed to him. He'd hoped he could bring that approach to the new project, but was met with a brick wall instead of possibilities.
     
  6. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    when you're in a band you tend to need to tell people when something isn't working, been on the giving and receiving end of it and it is just how you get things done.
    if guys can't face up to that, they probably don't need to be in a band lol
     
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  7. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    Sorry- it isn't that "black and white" and doesn't apply to everyone down the line.
    Have any of us been in a band as huge as The Beatles, and had to deal with the difficult, years-in-the-making personal weirdnesses brought on by the kind of fame they had? I'd say no.
     
  8. BEAThoven

    BEAThoven Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    In general, this is where I fall on this one as well... I think it’s great if a songwriter comes in and says, “Yeah, just go with whatever you feel” to his band mates, but he still reserves the right to specify exactly what he wants.

    In this specific case, I bet George would not have been so touchy about it if his band mates were a bit more enthusiastic about working out HIS songs during run throughs... the fact that, say, Lennon yawned his way through “All Things Must Pass” and “Hear Me Lord” only to come back with half baked tracks like “Dig a Pony” had to really set George in a foul mood from the get go.
     
  9. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    no, but it still remains a fact. it doesn't matter how famous you are, if you can't communicate with each other that something isn't working, you're wasting your time.
    Really not sure what fame has to do with it
     
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  10. Socalguy

    Socalguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    CA
    It wasn’t an argument. Harrison was sick and tired of the whole Beatles thing. In his mind he was already gone.
     
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  11. Colocally

    Colocally One Of The New Wave Boys

    Location:
    Surrey BC.
    Exactly, I remember seeing Let It Be in 81/82 on tv and thought nothing of that little conversation, it was barely an argument, yet almost 50 years later ..................
     
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  12. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    What I'm saying is that his exit was more than just Harrison angry at Paul for cutting his contributions down, or Lennon's passive-aggressive state of mind. It was also years and years of personal stuff. And on the fame level they were at, everything gets magnified- whereas regular bands would have taken a break then came back. I know I did that in my bands when I was younger!
     
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  13. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    Funny- I saw the movie when I was 6 or 7, and that stood out in my mind, just as much as the rooftop concert.
    In 1970, it was a drag to see your favorite band not get along. There wasn't a lot of reports of bad feelings between them - or any band- then. And surely nowhere as accessible as that kind of news is now. We seem to crave the discord rather than harmony.
     
  14. YpsiGypsy

    YpsiGypsy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    I was referring to when he was learning sitar his guitar chops defiantly took a hit, heck man Harrison didn't even play the solo on his own Taxman.
    Yes of course I have heard Harrison's playing post-1968.
    (?) maybe I don't understand that question.
    Yeah when Harrison laid down the guitar for the sitar his guitar chops suffered by his own omission too. McCartney played a lot of lead guitar on the '65 & '66 LPs, also Peppers I think. Like he said he didn't get back into the guitar until he heard Cream and Hendrix, I think he said 'fell back in love' with the guitar so that would be post-1968. And I have to say it was a damn shame he wasted a couple of years on the sitar when he could have been refining his guitar play. He would have never been a Skydog but his playing on Lennon's LPs was very good.
    I also have to say that I don't care for the sitar on Norwegian Wood anymore, I used to like it but it has gotten boring but,...for what the group lost when Harrison laid down the guitar they more than made up for it in one song, Within You Without You is to me a top 10 Beatles track and that is saying a heck of a lot. I absolutely love his sitar solo in it, just so soulfully beautiful and although I know nothing about sitar playing it sounds technically rich. I also think in Within You Without You he successfully pulled off his "preachy" lyrics style, he sings it so sweet and sincere, also one of my all time favorite lead vocals of his.

    But his songs on other Beatles LPs, ahh not so much
    however I am a huge Long Long Long fan
     
  15. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    yea, i understand that. they all just needed a vacation. But history is what it is
     
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  16. Dylancat

    Dylancat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    When did George Harrison’s guitar playing suddenly went downhill???
    I missed that somewhere, somehow....
     
  17. beatleroadie

    beatleroadie Forum Resident

    When you watch that footage, you see two young guys who are frustrated about a lot of other things, but in this instance it's coming out in a disagreement over a guitar part. It's not about the guitar part.
     
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  18. O Don Piano

    O Don Piano Senior Member

    Oh yeah so true!
    It's too bad they couldn't do that then. Now it's what, 5-6 years between Adele releases?
     
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  19. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product

    yea. i have always maintained that the pressure to put out so much in such a short space of time was the big burn out.
    all the folks have their it's yoko's fault, it's paul's fault, it's blah, and blah .... no, it's called mental and emotional exhaustion
     
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  20. YpsiGypsy

    YpsiGypsy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Well actually we didn't hear him all the time, McCartney played a lot of lead on Rubber Soul, Revolver & Peppers.

     
  21. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    He wanted the group to respect him more, not to actually leave, which is why he bothered coming back and making some demands including about letting Billy Preston join the sessions and about moving to Savile Row and ditching the live concert in front of an audience idea.

    He said in an interview that it would be selfish not to work together as the Beatles for a few months a year and that they just needed to have a more balanced song allowance for each member.
     
  22. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    The 'fight' really reminds me more of how some married couples talk than other rock bands' fights. The song isn't really the issue, just lots of held-in resentment is starting to bubble to the surface.
     
  23. craymcla

    craymcla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Nashville, TN, USA
    I'm probably going to get killed here, but I just rewatched that segment to make sure I'm right, and it's exactly as I remember it. Despite popular belief, Paul is not talking to George at all; he's talking to John.

    It's at 9:09 in my copy. George is sitting to Paul's left and John is right in front of Paul. Paul is looking straight ahead speaking to the person in front of him, and you can even see John's clearly recognizable hair.

    It wasn't George, folks. And this is much ado about nothing.
     
  24. groundharp

    groundharp Maybe your friends think I'm just a stranger

    Location:
    California Day
    Let's NOT endorse violence between two of our heroes, OK?
     
  25. theMess

    theMess Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kent, UK
    So why did George say that he would play whatever Paul wanted him to and why did Paul say that he always ends up annoying George ? Was it all a big mix up?
     
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