Getting good and tired of nonsense gradings on Discogs

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Oscillation, Aug 19, 2021.

  1. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    I think the title pretty much sums it up. Near mint? More like no skips. VG+ I've actually had better results with in some cases, perhaps the people that put VG+ are more honest. But seriously I'm talking about vendors with 1000's of good reviews, providing merchandise not as advertised.
     
    Brian Lux and Old Fred like this.
  2. Old Fred

    Old Fred Forum Resident

    100% agree. I started boycotting Discogs purchases years ago, after getting burned too many times. :mad:
     
  3. glide

    glide Forum Resident

    Location:
    NY, NY, USA
    Ratings are pretty subjective. I always err on the side of caution when listing something that has been opened/played.

    If you don’t want to take the chance, your only option is to buy sealed/new or shop in-person.
     
  4. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Can you find me a new, sealed version of this though?

    Tower Of Power - East Bay Grease

    Actually that's a bad example as when I replaced this I got a great copy :)
     
  5. Brian Lux

    Brian Lux One in the Crowd

    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    Yeah, it's gotten out of hand, especially over the last couple of years.
     
  6. JustGotPaid

    JustGotPaid Forum Resident

    Everything is NM.... in the dark.
     
    Archguy, Galley, eddiel and 4 others like this.
  7. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    When there is so much money on the table for over grading, rip-off artists and know-nothings find it irresistible to over grade.
     
  8. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    Well the reviewers must believe the grading as they consistently give good reviews….
     
  9. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    If you're paying attention to discussions on these forums, you'll see a large number of people believe you don't leave a negative review if the seller "works with you" to refund your money.

    Seller ships counterfeit. Buyer is clued in enough to notice. Seller apologizes "oh, I don't know how that happened...here's your money back." Buyer "Might have been an honest mistake (even though the same seller has lots of other counterfeits for sale), I won't leave negative feedback." And so the cycle continues, with a lot of people too clueless to notice.

    The same thing happens with over grading: Throw it all against the wall and hope most people don't notice. Refund those who notice. Expect few/any negative feedback.
     
  10. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses? Thread Starter

    I have to admit I’ve been guilty of that myself but no more. If you didn’t provide the product you advertised I’ve started giving negative feedback with a statement that they refunded my money.
     
  11. Brian Lux

    Brian Lux One in the Crowd

    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    How much of the root of this problem extends back to the grade terms coupled with their definitions by Goldmine in the first place? I wonder how much of the confusion would have been cleared up in the first place if these terms had been used:
    Sealed. (For reasons I'm sure we all know, not "mint".)
    Mint Minus/ Near Fine (As currently defined)
    Very Good (very good should be very good, no need for the +)
    Good (As currently defined as "very good")
    Good - (Barely passing as "good")
    Poor
    Trash

    The same can be said for book ratings. A book in good condition should be in good condition.
    I've been in the book business for many years and I rarely see a book described as "good" that I would call good. That's just poor use of English.
    I have a copy of AllMusic's Jazz guide that I bought on-line. It has many marking, underlining, and highlighting throughout, library stamps and stickers, several dog-eared pages, and the wraps look like blankety blank. It was rated "very good". I kept it because it's heavy and return shipping would have been more than it's worth. It's serviceable, I just wish it had been rated correctly.
    And what the heck is "acceptable?" Does that mean the waste disposal or possibly the recycling center will take it?
     
    Dave and InStepWithTheStars like this.
  12. InStepWithTheStars

    InStepWithTheStars It's a miracle, let it alter you

    Location:
    North Carolina
    Agreed 100% about the re-purposing of words with clear definitions. It's like some kind of psychological marketing the same way the $49.99 trick is. Imagine if you applied these grades to furniture or appliances. "Couch is in very good condition due to cigar burns and a blood stain"; "marble countertop has a small crack near the left side but is excellent otherwise". Imagine if they found an undocumented, never-before-seen Van Gogh in someone's basement that was musty and slightly yellowed with spiderwebs on it, and some auction place tried to pass it off as "good". These "re-descriptions" only apply to collector markets... but, then, we all know how gullible and easily fooled collectors are, don't we? ;)
     
    Brian Lux likes this.
  13. Brian Lux

    Brian Lux One in the Crowd

    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    "Couch is in very good condition due to cigar burns and a blood stain"; "marble countertop has a small crack near the left side but is excellent otherwise".
    Ha! Perfect! Great analogies, InStepWith!
     
  14. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy "The greatest love of all is unconditional"

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    Forgive me for saying this but this will be a never-ending normal encounter of buying on line especially things that requires "personal touch" Its tough because you cant access everything locally. But if you have the patience you can always order some of them on you local record store.
     
  15. Brian Lux

    Brian Lux One in the Crowd

    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    Good point. In the right location, I would probably seldom need to shop on-line. Sadly, many places do not have (and some never did have) a decent local record shop.
    In my case, unfortunately, the only local record store is me with only about 500 LP's at my wife's bookstore at any one time. The other nearest record store is 45 to 60 minutes away and they are not bad but I don't drive that far very often. That would be one good reason for living down in Sacramento. Unfortunately, there are dozens of very good reasons to not live there. So for the most part I'm left with taking my chances on-line and hoping I don't get too many "cigar burn", "blood stained", "small crack near the left side" records in the mail!
     
  16. rene smalldridge

    rene smalldridge Senior Member

    Location:
    manhattan,kansas
    Are most of you referring to buying vinyl through Discogs because I have had excellent results with buying CDs ? I very seldom purchase vinyl on-line except with a few dealers I know.
     
    BluesOvertookMe likes this.
  17. Classic Car Guy

    Classic Car Guy "The greatest love of all is unconditional"

    Location:
    Northwest, USA
    I don't quite agree on that statement. Lets just say that the seller has a lot of counterfeits, buyer has the right to protect themselves too by not just buying anywhere especially places commissioning from independent seller. You go out and there will always be a risk especially if sellers know that "Hey I got my weekly paycheck. Come and get it..."
     
  18. Say It Right

    Say It Right Not for the Hearing Impaired

    Location:
    Niagara Falls
    My experience has been mostly positive. When purchasing audiophile media (DVD-A, SACD, gold discs), the experiences have been 100% positive. A couple of these have been from a shop in NYC, who are total professionals.

    When purchasing redbook CD's, there's definitely been a mixed bag in terms of described vs. actual condition.

    My biggest beef is no doubt outside of Discogs's hands, but sales tax in used items is double dipping.
    :realmad:
     
    Clayton93, Dave and Classic Car Guy like this.
  19. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    You know, I actually think that is far better than what you often get with grading. At least you know that you're getting cigar burns and a blood stain. With most sellers, you just don't know what VG means in their mind until you get it. :)
     
    Brian Lux likes this.
  20. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I sold some books online so I decided to look up book grading to get it right. I found it a bit easier to work with than the vinyl grading guide but grading vinyl is inherently more difficult due to the medium IMO.

    People don't really understand the current grading as it is though and outside of wanting to be honest, there's little incentive to actually understand each grade properly.

    It also doesn't help that sellers often do not add comments to the letter grade. I'd rather see a letter grade along with a description of the condition because often, when sellers do that, I can tell it's going to be overgraded as the description doesn't really match the defined version of the grade. You'll see VG+ with descriptions that are more aligned with VG.
     
    Brian Lux likes this.
  21. Brian Lux

    Brian Lux One in the Crowd

    Location:
    Placerville, CA
    Good points both, eddiel. Yes, I would much rather rate and describe books than records. Even when someone who is selling records is careful, it can be easy to miss small flaws in an LP unless the record has been play tested. With a book, it's easy to see if there is writing or highlighting, condition of the boards or wraps, binding and dust jacket, and presence of odors or not.
    Speaking of odors, I am always very unhappy when I get a record in the mail that is musty smelling and it hasn't been described as such!
    And yes, a simple letter grade on an LP is just not enough. I tend to shy away from purchasing based only on a letter grade. I'm with you in finding a worded description more helpful.
     
    eddiel likes this.
  22. giantleech

    giantleech Lord of all fevers and plagues

    With used items I stuff as much concise, to-the-point descriptions of the item's condition in the "condition comments" section of the listing as I can. So many other sellers don't even bother to provide any additional information and just rely on solely on letter grades (which, to me, is wholly insufficient.)

    If you are interested in a used item, just contact the seller to give you an actual description of the item. From their response you should be able to suss out if the seller is accurate, conscientious and "on the level" or if the person casts any doubt to you by evasive and shady/vague levels of description and response. Investigate and go with your gut from there before you roll the dice on a purchase (that's what I do.)
     
    Brian Lux likes this.
  23. tennesseeborder

    tennesseeborder Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chuckey, Tn
    I've bought a few and sold a few over the past couple of years. A few days ago I bought 6 lps, and a few sellers are sloppy with their jacket grading. I will give it a few days then I'll contact the sellers about it. I don't want to return any because I'm happy with the condition of the lps. As a seller I'm a strict grader with lp/jacket and always err on the side of caution. I reread the goldmine grading standards and I think they are reasonable.


    I just posted the above paragraph on the other discogs thread. I wish that I could find a good record store, but I live in NE Tn and haven't found anything even in knoxville. I agree with one of the above posts. If they give me a refund, I'll still leave a negative feedback. This has caused some doubts about going back to discogs. I'll most likely find some record websites that are recommended.
     

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