Giles Martin: Update the Beatles

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Guy Gadbois, May 18, 2017.

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  1. slane

    slane Forum Resident

    Location:
    Merrie England
    Vocals were usually panned centre, with most of the Beatles stereo mixes being 3-point mixes - Left, centre, right.

    Only the Rubber Soul songs were 'hole in the middle' mixes made from a 4-track source.
     
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  2. YpsiGypsy

    YpsiGypsy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    All I want for Christmas is a new stereo mix for Rubber Soul and Revolver

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Billo

    Billo Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern England
    that's not quite true re the basic style EMI stereo back then - some Cliff /Shadows stereo versions had the vocals central and instruments spread out , as also with The Shadows instrumentals in stereo and some Beatles stereo versions too

    Most of the songs The Hollies first album 'Stay With The Hollies' (1964) and all but one track on their fifth album 'For Certain Because...' (1966) had stereo versions with vocals either centralised or spread out with the instruments across the stereo channels

    it depends how how much time and care was devoted to doing the stereo mixes - the other more basic stereo mixes put instruments on one channel, vocals and maybe an odd instrument on the other with nothing featured central or maybe a vocal central and on one channel...with the rest of a band all squeezed up on the other channel

    listen to Cliff / Shadows doing for example; 'When My Dream Boat Comes in' (1962) 'Perfidia' and 'Sway' (1965) in stereo - many Hollies early stereo albums had the ultra basic sound too, even the UK stereo of 'Sorry Suzanne' as late as 1969 also had this stereo sound (on 'Hollies Greatest' vol 2 released in 1972)
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  4. Bemagnus

    Bemagnus Music is fun

    As long as one always have the original version available I don t see anything revolting in carefully done remixes. I for one loves the remixed Sergeant Pepper for it s clarity and punch. I also like the monoversion and the 1988 cd-the latter lacks the punch of the latest version but has a more pastoral sound.
    It s all there so why worry.
    If a remix is made the wrong way, alter the music or put a dance beat on Blackbird on the other hand-that s like coloring black and white movies or put a moustache on Mona Lisa. Even though that could be fun to.:)
     
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  5. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    This explains a lot.

    Some people took offense when I said, quite some time ago, that there may be people who are not able to process stereo as well as others. Sort of like a type of "color blindness". If the Beatles having panned stereo is giving a person headaches...one has to know that this is not a common malady. At least I don't think it is.

    I'm not blaming the "victim".

    Because I TOO would steer clear of panned stereo from the Beatles if it gave ME a headache.

    And would be hoping for relief via remixes.
     
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  6. bherbert

    bherbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Africa
    That is my biggest hope in terms of future music releases. For me, new stereo mixes of RS and Revolver would be the ultimate. I can’t imagine anything better.
     
  7. MHP

    MHP Lover of Rock ‘n Roll

    Location:
    DK
    Fine if you think what has been done to Sgt. Pepper is 'wrong', just as long as you are expressing that it is your own view.
    There are several posters here, who are defending that it is 'obvious' and an 'objective' thing that the remix is bad.
    There are many people who likes that remix.

    Bear in mind, that the Yellow Submarine Songtrack had very negative reviews among Beatles fans 18 years ago, for using compression and no-noise. The 1987 cd's was very criticised by fans until 2009.
    It seems the tendency is to be negative unsatisfied on every go-to product, until a new one comes along.
    Revisionism, anyone?
     
  8. bherbert

    bherbert Forum Resident

    Location:
    South Africa
    Good point. I can understand why people would be concerned about remixes. It’s because they care about the music and don’t want it watered down. However, in my opinion the Giles remixes are great. And the reason I think that is because I enjoy them. I think that is what it comes down to. Do you enjoy it or not? If not, no problem. The original mixes are there and always will be. The remasters and remixes got me listening to the Beatles after a 10 year hiatus where I burned out on the 87 cd’s and never wanted to hear another Beatles song again. After 10 years I found this forum and checked out the various remixes and mono mixes and that got me listening to the Beatles regularly again.
     
  9. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Guys, I’ve beaten the dead horse to a beef jerky about a million eons ago in the previous “Giles destroyed Sgt. Pepper’s” threads. He didn’t destroy “Sgt. Pepper.” All iterations of “Sgt. Pepper’s,” including, and most importantly, the original stereo and mono mixes are available on digital and CD. Besides the original mixes, there are other versions of “Sgt. Pepper’s” material, counting the 1998 “Yellow Submarine” remixes, the 2006 “Love” remixes and the mid-‘90s “Anthologies,” all of which that are easily available on either iTunes, Spotify, and on CD. It’s not like he sabotaged the master tapes for the original 1967 stereo mix. It’s different to have a subjective opinion on Giles Martin’s remix of “Sgt. Pepper’s” than to say: “THE END OF DAYS IS HERE! Giles will burn every copy of an original Beatles’ mix!”
     
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  10. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    By the way, sorry to exclude the fact that there are vinyl records for most of the “Sgt. Pepper’s” material mentioned in my previous reply.
     
  11. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    ^Oh, all of that (I hope) might apply to a newly remixed Beatles’ catalogue by Giles Martin, if there is such a possibility of it happening in the future. Although, I can’t imagine what he’d have to work with for the first two albums, “Please Please Me,” and “With The Beatles,” (both recorded on two-track), if he considers remixing them from a compeletist point of view. Two-track masters? Jeez, I hope he doesn’t digitally extract the life out of those if he considers going down that route.
     
  12. The Ole' Rocker

    The Ole' Rocker Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Another addition: The “Rock Band” mixes aren’t available on digital or CD.
     
  13. Lord Hawthorne

    Lord Hawthorne Currently Untitled

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Not on officially-released CDs, anyway.
     
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  14. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    So is Giles doing the White Album Anniversary due to the Sgt Pepper 50th Anniversary success?

    I think the White A should be even more popular Anniversary wise, definitely contemporary sounding music as well.
     
  15. Mr. Nastey

    Mr. Nastey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    The White Album is my favorite Beatles album and favorite album by anyone. I have numerous copies of it on vinyl and cd. I have issues with the versions out there.

    I like the clarity of the stereo mix, but the panning makes it hard to listen to in headphones. And let's face it, sometimes you NEED to blast stuff in headphones to drill the sound right in your ears. Over a stereo in a room, it sounds good and raw, unless your stereo speakers are really separated or you are sitting closer to one speaker than the other. In the car, usually not so much, unless you are in the backseat in the middle. Panning is the only real issue I have with the stereo mix.

    The mono version which I have in a couple of vinyl pressings and the mono cd version, to me sounds muddy. Not much treble...really "boxy" sounding. Better panning wise for headphones, but the lack of fidelity makes it hard for me to listen to on phones.

    However.........The White Album is a raw album, and it is supposed to be raw. If Giles tidied it up, it might lose a lot of what makes the album sound great to me. Pepper was a clean sounding recording in the first place, so giving it a little shine wouldn't be terribly out of place. Doing that to the White Album, I feel would ruin it. (I know, LIB was raw too and the remix "Naked" tidied it up and made it sound cleaner. I don't mind "Naked", but I'd be lying if I said that it replaced the original LIB to me).

    I am not opposed to a remix by Giles or anyone else. As others have pointed out, if I don't like it, then I just won't listen to it. Simple. Every remix is not going to please everyone. Purists will be outraged at the tampering with history (I used to be like that, but some of the remixes I like, and even the ones I don't like don't bother me anymore. Maybe I am relaxing more with age). People used to hearing an album a certain way will notice changes that might sound jarring to them. (I find the new Pepper to have more bass and more processing - I don't hate it, I don't love it greatly either. It will depend on my mood which one I grab when I am in a Pepper mood).

    Anyway, I guess what I am trying to say is that half of me is excited for a White Album remix, and the other half is afraid I will be disappointed. If I am disappointed, then I just won't listen to it again. No biggie.

    However, I am looking forward to hearing other outtakes. I know we got a disc full of them on Anthology, but I would love to hear more. I liked the outtakes on the Pepper set. That's my main motivation for wanting a new White Album set.

    Last thing......If I remember correctly, didn't Revolution 9 have most of the loops fed from other machines into the 2 track? In other words, most of the loops/sounds are not on the master tape? If that's so, wouldn't this mean the only way that could be remixed is if the loops are still in the EMI archives or Yoko has them? I know George Martin said that Tomorrow Never Knows could never be remixed due to thtat fact, but didnt he say the same about Revolution 9? If so, does that mean if the White Album is remixed, that #9 would only have to get a remaster?
     
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  16. ToneLa

    ToneLa Forum Resident

    Yeah man update em, get a really modern sound.

    Brickwall the sound, autotune the harmonies, make em sound robotic, sidechain Ringo n Paul, put sub bass drop sound effects in the middle of tunes. Redo some of the songs as obligatory, very slow piano versions.

    ... Maybe it's best Giles ignores my advice
     
  17. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Mono ...better panning ..headphones "?
    Mono = zilch panning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  18. Mr. Nastey

    Mr. Nastey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    That's what I meant. Everything is dead center. There are no panning issues like on the stereo.
     
  19. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    I've had enough. Daft comments about panning and headphones etc etc and again people can't be bothered to list their equipment. Steve has commented on this but resources aren't great enough to enforce the forum rules. Perhaps I should just use the ignore button in that case! Maybe some people might accept that the recordings are what they are - from the 1960s - and not some modern Pro Tooled thing.
     
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  20. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    What stereo panning is dead centre?
     
  21. DRM

    DRM Forum Resident

    Deadpan?
     
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  22. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Jack Benny. :laugh:
     
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  23. Mr. Nastey

    Mr. Nastey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    So listing my equipment is going to change how things are panned? Or how good or bad my equipment is makes me prefer the original mix compared to a new mix? Please do ignore me if my thoughts or preferences annoy you because they are not the same as yours.

    You obviously know what I mean. The stereo mix I would like in a remix doesn't have extreme panning like the early Beatles albums. The voices and drums more centered in the stereo spectrum. And I do understand that I am referring to mono. Please re-read my earlier post as to why I am not fussy on the mono mix. All I am suggesting is that if there is a stereo remix, that the drums and voices are more centered than in the original 1968 mix.
     
  24. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    You don't like wide stereo, extreme panning ala Jimi Hendrix ?
     
  25. Mr. Nastey

    Mr. Nastey Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Perfect. I don't mind if the drums are individually panned over the spectrum, or lead vocals in the center and backing vocals panned left and/or right. Personally, I just find it distracting hearing the White Album in headphones like that. Which is why i listen to the earlier Beatles albums in mono when listening on phones. But since the mono White Album sounds boxy to me, I don't like listening to that on headphones
     
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