Godfather question: Did anybody back home know that Michael got married while he was in Italy?*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vinny123, Jun 7, 2018.

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  1. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Vito ran things for MANY years without a challenge and not only tolerated, but had a good relationship with the other families. Barzini set in motion events that would outlive him. Michael stepped into the role as a hard man, not someone to be thought of a friendly godfather, but as a tough steeled man who was always ready for a fight. He saw at some level that this was the new world and it was dog eat dog and that you either were on top or you were dead (and even then being on top was not to be taken for granted). We see some evidence that Vito saw the world changing before he dies. And of course, Mike learned about the payback for rash and impulsive behavior from his brother. He had a role to play and there was no way to change that role without dying.
     
  2. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    Given that Lucky Luciano was actively supporting the US effort in Sicily during WW2, I wonder exactly how real the "war hero" narrative is. We never really learn what Michael did in the war, just that he served valiantly. Since the Corleones had newspapermen on the payroll, it would've been an easy narrative to spin. Just like Al Capone was a champion of the poor.

    I wish there was a "Godfather Redux" that includes the hospital visit to see dying Genco. Michael at the time still distant from the Don, who complains that they don't talk to one another anymore. Only in the other hospital scene does Michael pledge his loyalty, and subsequently vows to slay his father's enemies.
     
  3. EddieMann

    EddieMann I used to be a king...

    Location:
    Geneva, IL. USA.
    I could be mistaken but I do believe that scene exists in the chronological Godfather production.
     
  4. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
     
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  5. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Orange you glad she wasn't holding a banana? :p
     
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  6. Vinny123

    Vinny123 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Florida
    Yup.
     
  7. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Some observations about the scene between Michael and Don Corleone:

    First off, it diverges slightly from the screenplay. Here's what the screenplay says:

    Don Corleone: What was this for? [points to medal on uniform]
    Michael: For bravery.
    Don Corleone: And this? [points to another decoration]
    Michael: For killing a man.
    Don Corleone: What miracles you do for strangers.
    Michael: I fought for my country. It was my choice.
    Don Corleone: And now, what do you choose to do?
    Michael: I'm going to finish school.
    Don Corleone: Good. When you are finished, come and talk to me. I have hopes for you.

    But here is how it was filmed:

    Don Corleone: What are all these 'Christmas ribbons' for?
    Michael: For bravery.
    Don Corleone: What miracles you do for strangers.
    [Michael starts to walk away]
    Don Corleone: Just a minute, Michael. I wanna talk to you. Now, what are your plans when you get out?
    Michael: Finish school.
    Don Corleone: That's fine. I approve of that. Mikey, you never come to me as a son should. You know that, don't you? Well, when you finish school, I want you to come and talk to me. Because I have plans for you. You understand?
    Michael: Si.

    The dynamics have completely changed. In the screenplay, the Godfather is confused by Michael's patriotism, but not derisive. He seems to show genuine curiosity and interest in his son. But in the film, the Godfather is practically mocking the ribbons! (And therefore mocking Michael's concept of loyalty.) And Michael is obviously upset and begins to walk away -- it really shows a vulnerable side of Michael, showing that he lets Vito's words get under his skin. And Vito is obviously hurt that Michael does not "come to him" -- again, showing vulnerability. I can understand why Coppola would not want viewers to see those sides of Michael or Vito. And when Michael ends the conversation with "Si", it's almost like he's just telling the old man what he wants to hear. ("Yeah, sure, whatever.") Also, it was smart to change it from "I have hopes for you" to "I have plans for you." The Godfather does not live by hope. He lives by plan.
     
  8. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member

    Location:
    Montreal
    As it happens, I just downloaded the Godfather annotated screenplay from Amazon to my tablet for a mere $2.99. Thanks for the preview!
     
  9. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    I agree that it was the right decision to cut it. I am not even sure how it would work in the current film. In the film, the Don seems very proud that Michael is making it straight. And he is very upset to hear Michael is part of the family business after he shoots McCluskey. And later, he tells Michael that he was hoping he could be Senator Corleone.

    Does the book have these other elements, or does it seem the Don changes his mind, or does it just seem like a contradiction?
     
  10. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    The second to last scene of Part II- the flashback to the gathering for the Don's birthday- shows the Corleone's disdain for serving in the military.

    However, Clemenza had briefly assued Mike that, "we was all proud of you. Your father too."

    Almost like Vietnam or Iraq where maybe you don't think it was worth doing, but you are none the less proud that your son took it upon himself to volunteer.
     
  11. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    From the end of GF2 we learn from Hagen that the Don has big plans for Michael's future. This isn't inconsistent with the encounter in the Genco/hospital scene imo.
     
  12. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    It just does not seem to fit the other scenes I referenced.
     
  13. Grunge Master

    Grunge Master 8 Bit Enthusiast

    Location:
    Michigan
    In the book, it seems as if the Don is upset that Michael killed Solozzo and McCluskey. Although , he could just be upset in general that those guys were killed, not necessarily that Mikey did it.
     
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  14. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC

    But later on in the garden, he tells Michael that he "never wanted this for you."
     
  15. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    Michael had his own plans, until they tried to kill his father.
     
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  16. bostonscoots

    bostonscoots Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Vito's ambitions for Michael mirrored those of many immigrant families of the time - that their children wouldn't have to be bakers, grocers, or even gangsters (not to generalize). They wanted their children - or some of their children - to go to college and do others things with their lives, perhaps even take up professions offering real influence and power (although I'm not sure what the distinction is between a "Jew Congressman" and "Senator Corleone" to Vito). What is clear from his sadness upon hearing Michael killed Sollozzo and McCluskey and from their conversation in the garden is Don Corleone always had higher ambitions for Michael.

    ...but the Turk was right - the Don was slipping in his old age. Sonny's impulsive nature - the violence, infidelity, inability to keep his mouth shut - were clear signs to the Don that Sonny lacked the necessary skill set needed to command the Corleone Family and yet, he's still second in command and the heir apparent. Perhaps he thought Tom Hagen might bring some balance by providing the much needed cool headed reason Sonny lacked? Not being a fool, my feeling is the Don suspects Sonny would be a bad Don and when he's told who did the hit, he's saddened not merely because it was Michael but that it was the right move - and all Michael's idea.

    What I like about the cut scene is perhaps the Don begrudgingly respects Michael's independence - that he's not afraid to find his own path - and I believe Michael answering him in Italian isn't him dismissing the Don, but a sign of returned respect. In the first two Godfather films, the important points in a conversation are spoken in Italian - the conversation with the Turk at dinner, Frankie Pentageli and Michael discussing Hyman Roth's backing of the Rosato Brothers, Michael asking Tom if he's staying with the family, even Tom and Mama Corleone commenting on DeAnna flirting with Merle (a moment I love...Mama ain't digging Merle at all). So Michael responding in Italian is a signal that he is listening to Vito even if he doesn't agree with him.
     
  17. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    True, but he had no illusions about his father. Mob guys, including bosses, got killed all the time. Sonny was willing to heed Hagen's advice to avoid an all-out war and make the deal with Solozzo. For Michael, it really was personal.
    Interestingly, Michael couldn't speak Italian when he was exiled to Sicily; he needed an interpreter to negotiate his marriage to Appollonia. But he could converse in Italian with Don Tommasino so he must've been a quicker study than I was!
     
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  18. dmiller458

    dmiller458 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midland, Michigan
    Michael spoke Italian with the Turk before he killed him.
     
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  19. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    He tried to, but lacked the fluency to get his message across. Then they reverted to English.
     
  20. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I have always thought Michael's level of Italian was akin to my ability in German back in the day. The day to day things, casual bantering, and fairly substantive stuff was no problem. But there would be key moments when your intent, the vital point you wanted to make, was slightly out of reach. Not to mention you have good days and bad days conversing in a second language.

    Wit the Turk and Apollonia's father, Michael was under duress yet needed to make his points perfectly. So both times he reverted to English.
     
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  21. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Of course, and it also drives home those moments more with the audience.
     
  22. Fastnbulbous

    Fastnbulbous Doubleplus Ungood

    Location:
    Washington DC USA
    I'd forgotten the OP question. My assumption is yes, since Tommasino had to be in regular contact with the States to know Michael's life was in jeopardy and Sonny had been killed. For that matter, since Barzini had already infiltrated Michael's inner circle with Fabrizio, he probably knew as well.
     
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  23. Jack Lord

    Jack Lord Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Yes it works to nice effect, especially in Part II where he and Frankie are arguing and go back and forth between English and Italian.
     
  24. Luke The Drifter

    Luke The Drifter Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Great device. And it is a beautiful language.
     
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