Godfather question: Did anybody back home know that Michael got married while he was in Italy?*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Vinny123, Jun 7, 2018.

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  1. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    I've read all of Puzo's work. His favorite and IMO, his best book was his 1st; The Fortunate Pilgrim. Based on the tale of his immigrant grandmother, in interviews he'd say when he wrote Don Corleone's words, in his mind he heard them spoken by his grandmother, musta been quite a dame! Just finished a similarly themed book last week by Laura Fabiano; Elizabeth Street, really terrific reading!
     
  2. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    The movie kind of portrays it happening pretty quickly after Hagen's visit. But I can't remember what the novel says. It makes sense though it would happen over several days. Hagen knows that the horse means a lot to Woltz, he also knows Woltz treats everyone like **** so it would probably be easy to get inside help. Maybe he calls in a favor from a local family or gets Clemenza or Tessio to organize the job. Woltz probably takes sleeping pills or is drugged. Also in the novel (and maybe it was filmed and shown in the saga) Woltz is shown to like underage girls - so I would imagine that would mean people close to him would not respect him either.

    Of course whilst Woltz knew who had done this he had no proof. There was no way he could connect it to the Don, they had never met, no threats were made to him other than a vague comment about union problems etc.

    Hagen was a lawyer, no criminal record, he was merely trying to negotiate on behalf of his client. So if Woltz had gone to the authorities not only would there be nothing to link the Corleone family to the crime he was in danger of exposing his own activities.
     
  3. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    As an aside to this grisly tale when I watched this with my wife, it was the first time she had seen the film, she said the head looked obviously fake. I told her it was actually a real horse's head, I think they tried a fake one and it wasn't convincing enough. I must add they didn't kill a horse just for the movie, they used one which was dead already and going to be used for pet food :eek:
    Coppola wanted this scene to shock - it is the first time in the movie we see an example of how ruthless the Don can be in matters of the family. We have heard the anecdote from Michael to Kay of how he get's Johnny Fontane out of the band contract, but this is the first act of violence we see the results of.
    So from the swirling build up of music, the amount of blood and to the hysterical reaction from Woltz himself it all makes the scene almost operatic in it's affect and lingers long in the mind.
     
  4. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    At that time Pacino was on a real roll - he could have won multiple oscars, arguably for everyone of the films above.

    If you look at the winners those years:-

    1972 - Marlon Brando for the Godfather (fair enough) Pacino was nominated for best supporting actor along with Caan and Duvall but Joel Grey won it for Cabaret
    1973 - Jack Lemon for Save the Tiger (Pacino was nominated for Serpico) - not seen this so can't comment
    1974 - Art Carney for Harry and Tonto (Pacino was nominated for the Godfather Part 2) - not only not seen it but never heard of the film...
    1975 - Jack Nicholson for One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest (Pacino was nominated for Dog Day Afternoon) - probably give Jack this one...
     
  5. Chazro

    Chazro Forum Resident

    Location:
    West Palm Bch, Fl.
    One of Al Pacino's top 3 performances. Ya oughtta chk it out!;)
     
  6. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Pacino lost to Art Carney?!?!?
     
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  7. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Yeah, man, no s--t...Serpico is a must see!
     
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  8. Nice Marmot

    Nice Marmot Nothin’ feels right but doin’ wrong anymore

    Location:
    Tryon NC
    You just wrap it in a tarp and take your shoes off before you go in the house. No fuss no muss..... or so I've heard :laugh:
     
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  9. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Not just the novel, but the deleted scene. Excellent observation! Yeah I am thinking of how easy it would be more and more. There was nothing to be gained by threatening anyone. You say no, and that is it.

    Btw, I assume you haven't seen Save the Tiger and not Serpico. If you haven't seen Serpico, the bluray is very enjoyable in quality to me.

    One Flew Over and Dog Day is a tough call. I go with Dog Day. Pacino was near his peak there.
     
  10. Nice Marmot

    Nice Marmot Nothin’ feels right but doin’ wrong anymore

    Location:
    Tryon NC
    I think Scent of a Woman is the last movie that I've seen Pacino in that wasn't too "acting" over the top. It's been awhile since I've seen, maybe it's dated itself, since.
     
  11. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I think his last great acting was in Donnie Brasco. Definitely not the over the top acting that he is most known for lately.
     
  12. genesim

    genesim Forum Resident

    Location:
    St. Louis
    Sorry as a huge Al Pacino fan nothing could be further from the truth. Angels in America had great acting and he was rewarded for it. Donne Brasco?? Danny Collins? You Don't Know Jack?

    His latest like Pirates of Somolia and Manglehorn were very subdued. It is my opinion that when he was "over the top" it is because the part called for it. Any Given Sunday was an incredible role for him and that is probably one most criticized, and even when touching on comedy as in Simone and just disturbing like in Salome or Looking for Richard, I fail to see this analogy at all.

    The movies that are criminally underrated for me are Bobby Deerfield, The Local Stigmatic, Revolution (in Director's cut form), Chinese Coffee, People I Know, and perhaps one of my favorites of all, Phil Spector.

    Another that comes to mind. Glengarry. While all of these are not post Scenet of a Woman (which is also just as great as it has ever been), the point is that the accusation of him over acting never had any merit in my view. While obviously had some clunkers here and there (what artist hasn't had them?), most every time it was not his fault. I think he put in the work when he could, and yest I even enjoy stuff like Righteous Kill and Son of No One. They are still entertaining for me.

    I mean how is someone supposed to play a coked out freak like Vincent Hanna in Heat? He played the part perfectly IMHO.
     
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  13. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    Oops - I meant not seen Save the Tiger. I've seen Serpico and agree it is a tremendous performance
     
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  14. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    I know... I had to look Harry and Tonto up in Wiki - a film about an old man and a cat going on a journey. The Academy sure works in mysterious ways...
     
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  15. Phil147

    Phil147 Forum Resident

    Location:
    York UK
    Both performances are top notch - hard to pick between the two. I prefer Dog Day as a film though, John Cazale is also superb in this. And the thing is I never think of them as Michael and Fredo - such is their acting quality I think of them only in the roles they portray in the film.

    We do seem to have come way off topic here though :winkgrin:
     
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  16. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    I forgot about Danny Collins - he was very good in that movie.
     
  17. Chris from Chicago

    Chris from Chicago Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes

    To each his own, I suppose. But through my eyes... Pacino is the most glaring example... the very definition of over acting. Not everyone can remain in their prime forever. Jack Nicholson became a caricature of himself. Pacino... exaggerated everything. He's not in Nicholas Cage territory yet. But there's still time.
     
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  18. Nice Marmot

    Nice Marmot Nothin’ feels right but doin’ wrong anymore

    Location:
    Tryon NC
    You're certainly a bigger Al Pacino fan than I am. I've seen Heat, Donnie Brasco, Glengarry Glen Ross and Righteous Kill but don't remember much of any of them. Looking through a list of his movies, I've seen even more than these but don't remember them, either. For me, to rate an actor's performance, I (at least) had to enjoy the movie enough to remember it.

    So, to rephrase my statement, the last Pacino movie I saw that I actually liked was Scent of a Woman.
     
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  19. mmars982

    mmars982 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Another post-Scent of a Woman film I forgot about was Insomnia. I thought he was very good in that.
     
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  20. swandown

    swandown Under Assistant West Coast Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    The Corleones are ruthless, but they are also fair (in their own way). They're only ruthless with people who deserve it. For example, they only threatened Johnny Fontane's manager after the guy refused to accept a reasonable offer; they only killed the horse after Jack Woltz A) confirmed that Johnny would be perfect for the role, B) insulted the Corleones, and C) was confirmed to be a child molester.

    Also, Vito refused to order the execution of the guys who raped the undertaker's daughter (because it would not have been an equal response, since "your daughter is still alive").

    They live by a code of ethics. It's not quite the same code that the rest of us live by, but it does have a sense of fairness to it.
     
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  21. The Panda

    The Panda Forum Mutant

    Location:
    Marple, PA, USA
    Yep, at the start...........the script grabs you right from the start.
    They don't even show Vito until the poor guy finishes his story. the camera never leaves him. Then we see the great man when he speaks. Notice how he gets out of the chair. When he puts the cat down is also interesting.
     
  22. It' a nice little movie. The Oscar was really a lifetime achievement award for Carney.
     
  23. Abbagold

    Abbagold Working class hero

    Location:
    Natchitoches, LA
    I always thought the same. Kay was safe, no skeletons and no connection to the family business. An escape from life as he knew it. Also, I think he loved her, not passionate love, but loved her for who she was as a person.
     
  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I think it's even simpler and more selfish than that. He was an introvert, didn't have a lot of time to court women, and found himself in charge of a large, powerful family. He needed kids. There was only one person he could go to, who he knew had feelings for him before he became rich and powerful.
     
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  25. Grunge Master

    Grunge Master 8 Bit Enthusiast

    Location:
    Michigan
    That's exactly how the book explains it, too. I think that one of the oft repeated lines is 'Nobody was more reasonable than Don Corleone', or words to that effect.
     
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