Grado or Denon Carts?

Not to mention the fact that it tracks superbly on any low side of medium mass tonearm. And there's many stylus options so it can cover a wide range of record needs. I like my Shure M75 better than I do the M97xE. For me it sounds better and is less fussy on capacitance loading. It sounds like the classic Shure MM sound I have loved most of my life.

 

According to our esteemed colleague @chervokas, loading of LOMC cart should be 10 times its rated impedance, to produce best results. 103 has impedance of 40, hence good loading for it would be 400 to 500. If you read Denon's instructions, you will see that it says "100 or more".

I have my Zu Denon 103 loaded at 1000 Ohm, and couldn't be happier.

 

Zu recommends for the Zu/DL103 loaded anywhere from 100-400 ohm

"When setting the load on a MC phono preamp set your impedance to fall between 100 and 400 ohms. 400 ohm loading gives a slightly looser/fuller bass tone, maybe too loose; 100 ohm loading is tighter, maybe too damp—experiment, every room/rig/listener is unique (200 to 300 ohm load is typical for the majority)"

 

I should say, this idea of load impedance being 10X (or more) source impedance certainly isn't my idea, nor is it particular to LOMC's or phono carts. It's the common rule of thumb in audio electronic impedance bridging, a way of matching components to maximize voltage transfer (really to minimize voltage loss). If you google impedance bridging or look it up in any audio electronics text or something, you'll see.

Personally, when it comes to cartridge loading, or pretty much anything in audio, if there's a specific recommendation from the manufacturer, I'd start there -- it is possible that a company intends for a particular phono cart to be loaded down.

But most MC specs you see say "100 ohms or greater," I think because the most common input impedance you see on a MC phono preamp is 100 ohms, not always because 100 ohms is the ideal load. People see "100 ohms or greater" and read it to mean 100 ohms is the recommendation, which isn't necessarily the case.

It's true that with a 40 ohm internal impedance cart, a 400 ohm load may well work better -- less voltage loss at the input of the phono pre so maybe a little better dynamics and noise performance and maybe a little brighter than 100 ohms. But maybe not. 1000 ohms is a pretty light load for a 40 ohm cart. Have you tried 400 ohms? I find while MC carts are not nearly as sensitive to resistance loading, but when you do go really light you can wind up with a kind of bright and a little bodiless sound. On the other hand, 100 ohms does seem a bit on the heavy side for a 40 ohm cart, I'd suspect a 40 ohm cart loaded at 100 ohms to be warmer and smoother sounding than at 400 ohms, and maybe people like that. But I have no specific experience with the Denon 103.

 

Great info, @Benzion @Joe Spivey @chervokas !

 

The phono pre I use for the DL-103 (Pro-Ject Phono Box DS+, with 65 dB gain) has 10 Ohm, 100 Ohm, or 1000 Ohm settings, none in between. I chose the 1K, will try the 100 tonight to see which one I like better.

 

Have you paired one with the Lounge LCR?

I'm interested in trying this cart again. As I recall, it only had sins of ommission but I had an inferior system back then.

 

Try the DL-110 - very musical, and a big soundstage (like the DL-160 you already know). I wouldn't touch a Grado or Shure cart.

 

The Lounge has only 40 dB gain - insufficient, IMO, for the 110's 1.6 mV output. Love the Lounge otherwise, and the 110, too.

 

I would've thought so too, but for whatever reason, the Lounge seems to have plenty of gain for my SS Carmen that has only 2.2 mV output.

 

I have a Grado Blue and it outperformed the AT-120e and Nagaoka MP-110 on my TT. The Grado Blue is a little soft on treble, but I simply turn up amplifier treble to compensate. The Grado Blue has superb midrange response. I will be testing a Audio Technica MV-540ML today and report back in another post which cartridge is better. For the money, I do not believe the Grado Blue can be bettered. Grado Blue is best on low to lighter medium mass tone arms for best tracking.

 

Grado carts are famous for their mid-range, but have other issues.

 

Absolutely I have! I was just listening to it yesterday.

If you guys need/want more gain with the LCRMKIII/DL110 combo then send the unit in to me and I will bump the gain up.

Conversely, Copla can be used with the DL110 also. The Transimpedance knob does not work so well (not much effect in level or tone) but it will bump the DL110 up enough so that the LCRMKIII will think it is being fed a DJ cart signal level yet keep the finesse of HOMC. This is a great combo if you listen to high impact music like Metal.

 

I've also had a Denon DL-160 for many years and I loved it, it sounded outstanding. Last June I thought it was time for a replacement and went for the Denon DL-110 as the DL-160 has been discontinued. The DL-110 sounds similar to the DL-160 but not the same, something's missing, I don't know how to describe it, but is a great cart for the price anyway.
After only 6 months the DL-110 developed distorted sound on the left channel so I sent it back to the seller who sent it to Denon UK and it was in fact defective so I was offered a new one or get my money back. I opted for the second choice.
I got a new Audio Technica VM540ML and I must tell you that after 30/40 hours of break in it sounds for my taste better than either the Denon DL-160 and DL-110. I'm hearing details on my records I couldn't hear before, a wide soundstage (and the Denon DL-160 excells at that, but the AT VM540ML is even better) and an overall better sound with the Audio Technica than the Denons.

 

Hi Robert,

I didn't realize that you had a higher gain option.

Question; would someone running a passive preamp benefit from having the bumped up gain option for the LCR MKIII with an average output MM, or would the standard 40dB still be a better choice?

 

It's not an official option. I do it for people who need/want better system matching on a per need basis.

This is hard to say with such scant information. My first thought is; how much signal loss is inherent is the passive preamp? Next thought is; what is the sensitivity of the next unit downstream from the passive preamp? I would need to know these things before I could have a reasonable shot at an answer.

 

The VM-540ML was the best, but is $250.