Graham Era Gold V ( or Reflex M ) vs Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+

I've owned graham's amp2 se and the phonomena II years ago at separate times. I remember the graham being fairly neutral and the phonomena being more lean and forward. I no longer have these phono preamps but I am considering stepping up to the Era Gold V , Reflex M or the Phonomena II+ with my current setup ( audio technica at-150mlx - Marantz Pm14s1 - Focal Aria 906 ). I'm currently using the built in phono stage of the Marantz pm14s1, it sounds fine but I feel there is room for improvement. What would be you recommend?

 

Never heard the Graham Slee, but I own the Phonomena II+ and couldn't be happier. Quiet and clean presentation, great loading options, and definitely lively but controlled; I'd maybe call it a "professional" presentation for lack of a better adjective. I've used it with Denon and AT carts, and on Naim, Cambridge, and Mission Cyrus amps, and it just sounds great everywhere. I actually just bought the optional power supply for it and am just waiting to hook it up.

 

What cartridge are you using or planning to use?

 

Audio Technica AT-150mlx. I did use the at-150mlx with the phonomena II but that was on my previous setup which was already lean sounding --> Musical Fidelity integrated with Bowers and Wilkins speakers.

 

You are aware this cart has been discontinued, right? What do you plan to for styli when your current one wears out? Or maybe you have some more in reserve? There are some other AT styli that will fit.

In any case, I would recommend doing the G.S. loaner program and getting a Reflex M on loan if you can. That is, if you plan to use MM carts for the foreseeable future. If you plan to use MC later, and know what cart you are using, then G.S. also has solutions for you there.

If you need a bunch of MC loading and gain options in one box for messing with a bunch of different MC carts, then the MS Phonomena is probably a better choice.

 

Yes I am aware, i'll probably replace the styli with one of audio technica's newer offerings but that will be in a while...I'm looking into the Graham loaner program , I sent out a message to the Canadian coordinator, thanks!

 

Interesting, I found this post from Graham Slee himself ( from the gs forum ) talking about how their phono stages exhibit background noise for a positive sound outcome ( comapred to phono stages that use op-amp - like the phonomena ). He mentions that it might be beneficial to reduce noise but compromising the sound which results in a artificial sound signature.


"We used to make it plain about the hiss level of our Era Gold V and Reflex M phono stages but somewhere in the "battle" of updating our website this must have been lost.

The hiss level from these phono stages is more than most other stages on the market, not because we want to produce hiss, but because in semiconductor technology it is known (to analogue engineers that is) that a fast device produces more hiss.

I don't want to bore anybody with the science, but a naturally fast device slews voltage faster than a slow device. A naturally slow device will be lower noise, but will sound flat and uninspiring.

By naturally slow device I mean a transistor (BJT) input amp stage (such as an op-amp) which features no artificial slew rate enhancement (artificial slew rate enhancement sounds... artificial!). Transistor input devices are excellent for low noise, but absolutely useless regarding input linearity: once the 20mV rms linear portion is passed the entire device runs out of first stage gain, and that's where the hard sound such devices produce comes from. OK, I hear you saying your cartridge doesn't do 20mV? Oh yes it does! It does it at high frequencies, because the output of a magnetic cartridge increases in proportion to frequency.

High frequencies happen faster than low frequencies. So the transistor input not only saturates with them, it can't slew them fast enough either.

So what is required is an FET input or an emitter degenerated transistor input. These have high natural slew rates and greater input linearity.

The Reflex M uses FET - the Era Gold V originally used degenerated transistors (since upgraded to FET). Both produce more noise than a traditional transistor input stage.

But they sound far better.

Not simple enough for Google-Bot to understand..."

 

Just to clarify a bit, the Graham Slee Era Gold V degenerated transistors are the input stage of the Analog Devices AD817 opamp that he uses in this model. Most of his designs remain somewhat unique in the modern audiophile world in that he uses a single opamp per channel, and does the RIAA equalization fully in the feedback loop, similar to what is often done in very inexpensive units to save parts count, though in this case it is all about the opamp, and he's done extensive testing and listening to pick what works best in his design. Most audiophile designs use passive eq nowadays, so at least two gain stages, and often use discrete transistors without any negative feedback, or not very much, though most modern phono preamps are still built around high feedback opamp circuits.

The GS way does make for a very simple design with few parts, as shown below (from review at Audio Asylum... Vinyl Asylum ). I'm not sure which FET input opamp he has moved to now...

The Phonomena II+ is a much more complex looking surface mount discrete design, as you can see below (this is my unit... What phono pre would you buy under $600? ), it only uses an opamp as a DC servo to avoid using an output capacitor, the same as many solid state designs today ...

Graham Slee Era Gold V




Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+

 

I can tell you that my GS Reflex + PSU-1 does not make audible noise while records are playing, even during the quiet parts of subtle music. Even with no record playing and the volume turned up quite high, there isn't audible noise, though getting there required experimenting with the power supply figure 8 connector a bit. Obviously your downstream gear (amp, speakers, etc) may be a factor in this.

At least in my system, surface noise, pops and clicks, etc. are suppressed well in the background also. Many other G.S. owners have commented on this effect - not just me. Every other phono stage I've had or heard was worse in that regard FWIW, didn't matter if it was a passive design, discrete, active/passive hybrid whatever.

As for the differences in designs, the two designers are coming from different places which is fine. There are many different ways to make a phono stage. It's inescapable that records are a noisy format and that cartridges also make electrical noise, which gives phono stage manufacturers quite a bit of leeway. Nowadays you can buy phono stages with an A-weighted S/N ratio above 90dB but considering you are lucky to get 70-80dB off a record on a good day the benefit is questionable in practical terms.

 

I remember the phonomena II that I had was dead quiet but I mean DEAD , no noise at all and it had that solid state sound quality almost as if I was listening to cds but again, that was with a bright system. I wonder how it would perform with my system today given that my amp ( marantz pm14s1 ) is on the warm sound and my speakers are fairly neutral. My experience with the graham amp2 se was good , nothing too exciting , it did have some hiss but nothing that got in the way of the music. That's why i'm curious to try a gold era v or a reflex m and compare them to the phonomena II+...

 

G.S. stuff is neutral. At least for MM/MI carts, capacitance loading may be a factor with different cartridges, depending on the state of your hearing.

If you were to buy a new Phonomena or G.S. A2SE today, they would likely be a bit different than the models you had before.

FWIW, if I were you, I would skip over the EGV and go straight to the Reflex M and Accession M for the loan program. If you can get all 3, maybe do that. You'll have to talk to a dealer about getting a loaner for the current version of the Phonomena, or buy it and return it if you don't like it.

 

A minor point perhaps but the range of 'Graham' phono stages referred to frequently on this forum - indeed, in this thread - are actually Graham Slee stages, named after the designer.

As you were!

 

I've owned both of these (but not at the same time) but I'd take the Musical Surroundings in a New York minute. There's an optional power supply for it that takes it to the next level - HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.