Grant Green "Iron City"

Grant Green's "Iron City" has always been a bit of a mystery. Supposedly recorded in 1967, it was first issued on Cobblestone in 1972 and then reissued on Muse a little while later.

Some of have questioned whether it is Big John Patton on organ (as indicated on the cover) or really Larry Young.

On Amazon's customer reviews page, I found an interesting post from Travis Klein, the proprietor of Pittsburgh's legendary Itzy Records label:

 

This album grooves...I actually like his later funky -pay-the-bills stuff as much as his early classic period, not everybody feels that way.
I suggest the doubters check this album out along with Live At The Lighthouse.

 

If the 'Travis Klein Amazon' post is correct, and he titled the blues on the album Iron City, it suggests the title Iron City March? was kept in use by Grant Green for an unissued Verve Session in 1965 (see below).
Possibly placing the Iron City recording between another wonderful album, His Majesty King Funk (definitely with Larry Young), and the unissued Verve session.
Perhaps it was recorded between May 1965 and August 1965. This changes the context from the previous attribution of this great album from 1967 or later.
Also means someone sat on the tapes for 7 years.
By the way, the sessions below have never been released, and they also contain similar song selections to Iron City. It has been said on another board (Organissimo), that when Verve first released His Majesty King Funk on cd in 1995, they wanted to add the unissued sessions as bonus material, but could not locate the tapes

Grant Green (g) and others
NYC, August 5, 1965
65VK427 Iron City March Verve unissued
65VK428 Angel -
65VK429 Fat Judy -
65VK430 Samba De Orfeu -
65VK431 Chim Chim Cheree -
Grant Green and others
same personnel
NYC, September 1, 1965
65VK458 Things Ain't What They Used To Be Verve unissued
65VK459 Moon Over All -
65VK460 I Can't Stop Loving You -
65VK461 High Heel Sneakers -
65VK462 Blues Train -
65VK463 Sunday, Monday Or Always -
65VK464 Fever -
65VK465 Dream -
65VK466 Uptown -

 

There has been a lot of discussion of this on the organissimo forum in the past and, from memory, the consensus was that it was Larry Young rather than John Patton (I seem to recall that someone had heard directly from John Patton that he hadn't played on the session but it is possible that my memory is faulty).

 

Travis Klein is the real deal... He has some incredible stories from living the record biz in the 'burgh since he was a kid. I have actually talked to him about this record back in the day when I was a buyer for a Pittsburgh record chain.

I have no doubt about his story on Iron City.

 

I don't think that i was casting doubt - he doesn't seem to be saying anything about who the organist was.

 

I bought a copy off Amazon UK and ended up having to return 4 because of manufacturing faults.

 

Live at Club Mozambique is another good example of late, funkified Green.

 

32 Jazz reissued it on CD back in the 90's when Joe Fields sold Muse to Joel Dorn who reissued the Muse catalog with cheesy covers. We sold the daylights out of that album, that was one of my favorites.

 

I saw it on another CD, a Groove Hut two-fer called Organ Trio and Quartet that bundled it with Sam Lazar's Space Flight.

 

Also of note are two dates Green recorded sideman duties for -- Johnny Hodges "Joe's Blues" and "Wings & Things," both for Verve circa 1965.

There has been NO legal reissue on compact disc of these two albums. I think a Spain label put these out on CD by making a needle drop dub from old Lps. So the CD on the market is just an Lp dub by a dubious European label that skirts US copyright law.

I would love to see these two Hodge Verve albums reissued on CD from the original master tapes. I've heard them and Green is smokin!

 

Listen to Grant Green playing on "Wings & Things" from 1965 via the YouTube clip below. He tears it up!

Listen: ==>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQjBNJkdthY

He solos first beginning at 1:03 into the track and stretches out nicely. I can't believe there hasn't yet been a legal Verve reissue of this on CD from the master tapes!

 

Check this out! Someone recently uploaded a YouTube clip of Grant Green playing live at the 1966 Newport Jazz Festival:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Hjt7a_hVc

Talk about rare! I had not heard this before. Does more tape exist of Green's performance at Newport 1966?

 

It must have sold a lot of copies over the years.
I remember at the time of the 32 Jazz re-issue there was a feature review in Guitar Player Magazine. I think they also reviewed Pat Martino's Live at Yoshi's in the same feature. It was a really good review as well.

 

That was me
I hadn't seen the Green and Burrell performances appearing on youtube before, despite circulating on 'grey area' releases for years.
I am so glad you have got to hear this fantastic playing then.
I remember following your WGBH-TV thread with great anticipation at the time

 

It now looks like (thanks to Action Pact and Travis Klein) that Iron City was recorded in 1965, right smack back at the end of Grant's great Blue Note era . So we can see it as part of that history now.
I totally agree with what your saying though. I wonder about the misconceptions of these later recordings as well.
There's no way Grant Green stopped playing standards for purely financial/business reasons. The level of commitment and focus on the song selection and groove is far beyond anything any artist does who is not following his muse. Carryin On and Green Is Beautiful are great Grant Green albums. I think the changing social/cultural conditions for Black music allowed Green to focus on aspects of his playing that were already considered an integral part of his gift anyway.
The only LP's he released IMHO, that were not representative of this are possibly the Kudo album and The Final Comedown. And these were produced in a different way to his other sessions.
Also he needed to collaborate with (and find) musicians who also had different things in mind than the Hard Bop era. I think that also contributes to the sometimes dismissive opinions.

 

Thanks for sharing. Iron City was one of the first Grant Green recordings I picked up--probably because it was in a bargain bin somewhere in the late-1980s. Anyhow, I've always thought it was underated, and appreciate the new information.

 

Was it reissued using original master tapes? I remember that 32 Jazz Cd reissue sounding really murky. Was that due to the recording quality -- or did 32 Jazz use a bunch of digital noise reduction on their remaster?

 

What does "needed money to cop" mean? Is this some sort of drug reference -- or does it mean "cop a plea?" Or did he just need money?

 

Needed money to support his heroin habit.

 

Thanks. Did Green make any recordings during 1967-68? I seem to recall there is an apparent void in his discography during those 2 years. He's on several recordings as a sideman in 1966 (such as Art Blakey and Stanley Turrentine Lps), and then he resurfaces on record in 1969 for both Blue Note and Prestige.

So what was he doing during 1967-68? Was he gigging at clubs, but just not recording for a label? Or was he sidelined by the heroin habit? Or was he behind bars for heroin use? Those two years are like a mystery. Anyone know what he was up to during 67-68?

And when he came back in 69 was he clean? Had he kicked heroin?

 

I have the Cobblestone vinyl and do not remember it sounding murky (at least not the all-guitar left channel -- the drums are mixed way in the background behind the organ).
Mastering info: Sam Feldman at Bell Sound.

 

I have the Cobblestone too, and did not like the sound of this session so much until I heard the original vinyl. It's interesting that the organ and guitar are panned to alternate channels. I seem to remember at one point there was speculation this might have been the unissued Verve session, but they would have been recorded at Van Gelder's, and he would not have seperated the instruments like that. Until this recent info, I thought maybe it was the audio from the WGBH TV taping perhaps.
Anyway it is a good question to wonder about the master tapes. I would guess anyone that was involved with 32 Jazz or even Muse would know if there was a master tape.

 

How does the original vinyl differ in sound from the 32 Jazz CD?

 

I agree, what Klein posted has the ring of truth.

That's the version I have. I found a used copy very cheap on Amazon - it was shipped by Goodwill of Ontario, CA!

The 32 Jazz mastering is NoNoised.