Dick's Picks Vol. 16: San Francisco, CA - 11/08/1969 This one ain't gonna be pretty... For me, this release is still one of the biggest disappointments in the whole GD cannon. I've given it many a listening chance and for me it just isn't happening. I regard this as one of the most, in not THE most overrated GD releases ever. First set tends to get a lot of bad press, but I don't find it unworthy. These early renditions should be approached with a caution as they foremost give a chance to hear the band in »work in progress« phase that was happening around that time. Of all numbers, only »Cumberland Blues« is truly terrible, but it's the first performance ever, so it can easily be forgiven. The strech of the set from »Easy Wind« through to »Good Lovin'« is fine and holds its own. It is the second set that disappoints me. It drags too much and too often sounds just like (very proverbial!) directionless noodling. There are some good moments to be found, but those are far too rare. It seems to me that whenever there is a surge of energy, instead of riding on the wave the band backs down. Just two examples: transition from Dark Star to Other one jam is a good one and energy level suddenly rises, but after two minutes or so, it suddenly it drops, Phil goes to sleep (he literally stops playing) and Jerry just does some aimless noodling. Top Dead jamming right here? I can't hear it. It is sparse and thin, everything else but just not exciting. Second example: towards the end of »The Eleven« there is a major surge in energy, but instead of riding on the wave and tearing the house down, band again quiets down and transitions into long, uninspired, and energy-lacking version of »Caution«. Generally, there is a »hollowness« in sound on this release that I just can't connect with. Cymbals are too prominent and Bobby is totally buried in the mix. I also think TC's contributions are kind of boring and too often out of place. Seems like a lot of sense that he left the band soon and here you can hear why. A Big big disappointment. With so much great stuff out there, I even think I don't ever need to hear this stuff again. Definitively bottom of 1969 bag for me. I know I can get a lot of flak for a write-up like this, but I've given my honest opinion. We can't all have the same ears. Overall rating: 2.5/5
Dick’s Picks 16: 11/8/69 Fillmore Auditorium First time listening to this one. I have spent the past two weeks listening to 80's Dead with the new Dave's and the Giants Box. Talk about culture shock! The 80's stuff was good but I always found myself doing other things while listening. I tried doing some reading on these forums while listening to Dick's 16 and it was impossible. This is active listening ear candy at its finest. You cannot pick up what they're putting down if you aren't paying attention so....all the lights off, bean bag chair, headphones, joint, Xanadu! Super JUICY.
Love the honesty. I agree with you that the sound is not great and I totally forgot about TC like he wasnt even there. But I LOVED the last two CD's worth of Jamming and I am now wondering if it was because I was saturated by recent 80's Dead listening sessions. Your post and the differences in that everyone thinks about the releases is what makes this thread so great!
It’s all good. I mean, it’s not like you described this show as Horrible and BORING. Only deadheads would drink the kool-aid and believe this was anything more than trivial drug-induced noodling. Quit attempting to appear cool and wake up. These guys are the most over-rated performers in music history next to Thag banging on dried out tree stumps in his cave in Mesopotamia."
There's one in every thread Just kidding, it's good to get different opinions. There are times I don't like the show, it's definitely mood dependent for me.
Dick's Picks 16, well I can't believe I never heard this one before, because it's really good. Of course, it's dangerous to say that it doesn't get much better than this, but 1969, from the shows I've heard is a very consistent year in terms of high level shows. Much more so than for example 1977, which I held in much higher regard prior to joining SHF and participating in this thread. I mean disc 1 is jam packed with brand new, almost embryotic versions of WD material and of course a very early China > Rider, which sounds more like the studio versions than it does like later 72 versions. And the disc 2/3 jam is just awesome, with The Main Ten (which is a proto-playing iirc?), UJB and I even hear some MLBJ in there. I think I want this one. Onto Discogs we go, I guess.
You'll probably remind yourself that you like it very much... Much more more than me anyway... Yeah, this guy is not that well versed in history either. Cavemen from Mesopotamia ? If anything, Mesopotamia is known to be a cradle of urban civilisation. Yeah, but i tried DiP16 in all kind of moods. It just never clicked.
I certainly enjoyed it the last time I listened to it, but I don't listen to 1969 Dead that much in general, so it's been a while, and I don't always listen that closely, either. I'll try to make time to do so in the next few days. What's interesting to me about this discussion is that I've often found in the past that shows with the must unpredictable setlists can sometimes be the least interesting, in terms of playing. Like the band is just trying out different songs/themes without finding anything to inspire them. I would characterize this more as an 80s/90s thing but I've sometimes noticed it in earlier shows. So I'll be curious to see if I get any of that vibe off of this show.
Disc One is better than average - sprinkling some new songs in with the old concert staples like Schoolgirl and Good Lovin'. It's a nice introduction to the direction the band would head in 1970. Dire wolf, China>Rider, and Easy Wind are great to hear. The second set is what makes this an essential purchase. Look at the setlist: Dark Star>The Other One>Dark Star>UJB jam>Dark Star>St.Stephen>The Eleven>Caution>The Main Ten (Playing in the Band prototype)>Caution>Feedback>We Bid You Goodnight The segue between songs is mostly smooth, we hear early versions of Uncle Johns Band (jam) and Playin' in the Band (the Main Ten). It's simply a one of a kind set that every Dead fan needs to hear. When this was released, I had amassed a pretty nice collection of cds thanks to some online trading. I was busy buying blank cds and trying to recreate my small tape collection as well as scoring some of the legendary shows. My focus was 71-77 and I saw this was a 69 show and passed on buying it initially. A few years later when prices started to climb on Dicks Picks, I was able to track down a second hand copy of this and instantly regretted not owning it before.
This thread is all about personal opinions. I happen to share yours but others here will not. But you've posted exactly what should be posted if one feels that way.
Clickable thread guide List of releases By Release Date One from the Vault (1975-08-13 San Francisco, released 1991-04-15) Infrared Roses (1989-1990, released 1991-11-01) Two from the Vault (1968-08-24 San Francisco, released May 1992) Dick’s Picks 1 (1973-12-19 Tampa, released 1991-10-31) Dick’s Picks 2 (1971-10-31 Columbus, released March 1995) Grayfolded (1968-1993, released 1994 and 1995) Hundred Year Hall (1972-04-26, released 1995-09-26) Dick’s Picks 3 (1977-05-22 Pembroke Pines, released 1995-11-07) Dick’s Picks 4 (1970-02-13, 14 New York, released 1996-02-23) Dick’s Picks 5 (1979-12-26 Oakland, released 1996-05-30) Dozin' at the Knick (1990-03-24 Albany (mostly), released 1996-08-29) Dick's Picks 6 (1983-10-14 Hartford, released 1996-10-07) Dick's Picks 7 (1974-09-09, 10, 11 London, released 1997-03-04) Dick's Picks 8 (1970-05-02 Binghamton, released 1997-06-14) Fallout from the Phil Zone (Various, released 1997-06-17) Terrapin Station Limited Edition (1990-03-15 Landover, released 1997-09) Dick's Picks 9 (1990-09-16 New York, released 1997-10-19) Live at the Fillmore East 2-11-69 (1969-02-11 New York, released 1997-10-28) Dick's Picks 10 (1977-12-29 San Francisco, released 1998-02-26) Dick's Picks 11 (1972-09-27 Jersey City, released 1998-06-09) Dick's Picks 12 (1974-06-26 Providence, 1974-06-28 Boston, released 1998-10-15) Dick's Picks 13 (1981-05-06 Uniondale, released 1999-03-05) Dick's Picks 14 (1973-11-30 Boston, released 1999-06-18) Dick’s Picks 14 (1973-12-02 Boston, released 1999-06-18) Dick's Picks 15 (1977-09-03 Englishtown, released 1999-10-18) So Many Roads (Various, released 1999-11-07) Dick's Picks 16 (1969-11-08 San Francisco, released 2000-03) By Concert Date Various (released 1994 and 1995 on Grayfolded) Various (released 1997-06-17 on Fallout from the Phil Zone) Various (released 1999-11-07 on So Many Roads) 1968-08-24 Los Angeles (released 1992-05 on Two from the Vault) 1969-02-11 New York (released 1997-10-28 on Live at the Fillmore East 2-11-69) 1969-11-08 San Francisco (released 2000-03 on Dick's Picks 16) 1970-02-13, 14 New York (released 1996-02-23 on Dick's Picks 4) 1970-05-02 Binghamton (released 1997-06-14 on Dick's Picks 8) 1971-10-31 Columbus (released 1995-03 on Dick's Picks 2) 1972-04-26 Frankfurt (released 1995-09-26 on Hundred Year Hall) 1972-09-27 Jersey City (released 1998-06-09 on Dick's Picks 11) 1973-11-30 Boston (released 1999-06-18 on Dick's Picks 14) 1973-12-02 Boston (released 1999-06-18 on Dick's Picks 14) 1973-12-19 Tampa (released 1993-10-31 on Dick's Picks 1) 1974-06-26 Providence (released 1998-10-15 on Dick's Picks 12) 1974-06-28 Boston (released 1998-10-15 on Dick's Picks 12) 1974-09-09, 10, 11 London (released 1997-03-04 on Dick's Picks 7) 1975-08-13 San Francisco (released 1991-04-15 on One from the Vault) 1977-05-22 Pembroke Pines (released 1995-11-07 on Dick's Picks 3) 1977-09-03 Englishtown (released 1999-10-18 on Dick's Picks 15) 1977-12-29 San Francisco (released 1998-02-26 on Dick's Picks 10) 1979-12-26 Oakland (released 1996-05-30 on Dick's Picks 5) 1981-05-06 Uniondale (released 1999-03-05 on Dick's Picks 13) 1983-10-14 Hartford (released 1996-10-07 on Dick's Picks 6) 1989, 1990 (released 1991-11-01 on Infrared Roses) 1990-03-15 Landover (released 1997-09 on Terrapin Station Limited Edition) 1990-03-24 Albany (mostly) (released 1996-08-29 on Dozin' at the Knick) 1990-09-16 New York (released 1997-10-19 on Dick's Picks 9) This week: 1991-09-25 Boston (released 2000-04-28 on Dick's Picks 17) Next week: 1990-07-08 Pittsburgh (released 2000-06 on View from the Vault 1)
I relistened to the 11/8/69 set from Dark Star through St. Stephen (all I had time for at that point) and I think that although there's more experimentation and less concentrated fire than in a prime February to April 1969 show, there's still plenty of fire. As for T.C., he never adds something essential but doesn't hurt either.
Dick's Picks Volume 17 Recording date: September 25, 1991 Recording location: Boston Garden, Boston, MA Release date: April 28, 2000 Recorded by: Dan Healy Disc 1 First set: ”Help on the Way” (Garcia, Hunter) – 4:15 > ”Slipknot!” (Garcia, Godchaux, Kreutzmann, Lesh, Weir) – 5:30 > ”Franklin's Tower” (Garcia, Hunter, Kreutzmann) – 10:41 ”Walkin' Blues" (House) – 6:30 ”It Must Have Been the Roses” (Hunter) – 5:45 > ”Dire Wolf” (Garcia, Hunter) – 3:59 ”Queen Jane Approximately” (Dylan) – 7:16 ”Tennessee Jed” (Garcia, Hunter) – 7:50 > ”The Music Never Stopped” (Barlow, Weir) – 8:18 Disc 2 Second set: ”Victim or the Crime” (Graham, Weir) – 8:24 > ”Crazy Fingers” (Garcia, Hunter) – 9:38 > "Playing in the Band” (Hart, Hunter, Weir) – 9:22 > "Terrapin Station" (Garcia, Hunter) – 12:47 > ”Boston Clam Jam” (Grateful Dead) – 5:37 > ”Drums” (Hart, Kreutzmann) – 11:04 > ”Space” (Grateful Dead) – 8:15 > Disc 3 ”That Would Be Something” (McCartney) – 3:51 > ”Playing in the Band” (Hart, Hunter, Weir) – 5:23 > ”China Doll” (Garcia, Hunter) – 5:46 > ”Throwing Stones” (Barlow, Weir) – 8:59 > ”Not Fade Away” (Holly, Petty) – 9:01 Encore: ”The Mighty Quinn (Quinn the Eskimo)” (Dylan) – 4:43 1991-03-31 Greensboro: ”Samson and Delilah” (traditional) – 7:47 > ”Eyes of the World” (Garcia, Hunter) – 23:30 The first release from the dual-keyboard year of 1991, Dick’s Picks 17 dips into the fall Boston run. It wasn’t without controversy as some fans think other shows from the run are stronger and have better setlists (although for me, any show with Help>Slipknot>Franklin, Crazy Fingers, Playing, and Terrapin is nothing to turn down). The band doesn’t waste any time, opening with the well-known Help>Slipknot>Franklin’s sequence. You can hear the band gaining confidence through the trilogy; Slipknot! contains some nice little jams, and Jerry has some fine solos in Franklin’s Tower with Bruce contributing some lightning piano. A rare Jerry double with It Must Have Been the Roses segueing awkwardly into Dire Wolf makes for some surprising fun. A first-rate Music Never Stopped finishes up this enjoyable set. The second set has a wonderful variety of moods. While the music rarely got as out there in 1991 as it did the previous year, Victim or the Crime starts the set in a dark way. A lovely Crazy Fingers takes its time to unwind, and Playing has a very enjoyable Jerry-led jam. Eventually Jerry leads the band into Terrapin Station; Vince tries to ignore the move but Jerry doesn’t let up. It’s a nice version, leading into the Boston Clam Jam which has distinct Playing flavors. Drums is a relatively quiet version, focusing on basic rhythms and some simple melodies. We get a real rarity coming out of Space - That Would Be Something, complete with Jerry vocals. After that it’s the coda to Playing and an unexpected China Doll. There’s not much to say about the Throwing Stones>Not Fade Away that finishes the second set. The Mighty Quinn encore is a really fun way to end this fine show. There’s 30 minutes of filler from a Greensboro show almost six months earlier. A very lively Samson & Delilah leads into a slow, meandering version of Eyes of the World, one of the year’s best. Sound quality is very good - a crisp mix makes the sometimes busy seven-member lineup sound clear. There’s nothing of particular interest in the package. This second two-keyboard release may not rank with the band’s best, but it’s a very well-played concert and a worthy choice. It’s nice to have quality releases from outside the 1960s and 1970s.
This was the first "That Would Be Something" - fans probably assumed for a while that it would be the only one, but Garcia brought it back in 1993 and for some reason it became part of the rotation in the final years (three versions in 1993, six in 1994 and seven in 1995). One bit of dark humor I've read is that he probably didn't need a Teleprompter to remember the words for that one. As for 9/25/91, I haven't heard it yet enough to comment (I listened to a bit on Spotify and it didn't excite me).
Ouch. I mean, I don't disagree, but, man, that's gonna leave a mark. 9-25-91 was one of the handful of official releases that I attended. That Boston run in 1991 was unquestionably the last great stretch of Grateful Dead music I saw, made more bittersweet by the fact that it was one of the greatest runs of shows I'd seen since I first saw them in '86. Anyway, high-energy show. Lots of jamming but not really "out there" like the following night, or "riding the edge of chaos" like the first night but it's hard to find much complain about in any second set that features Victim>Crazy>Playin>Terrapin>Jam. That's a lot of tasty jamming. I seem to recall the vocals being kind of sloppy, and sometimes the playing (e.g. the lurch into "Dire Wolf," and the "Playin" turnaround, IIRC). On "Music Never Stopped," this is an excellent example of the way they changed that final jam up, slowing down and tweaking the chord progression to give Jerry some more melodic possibilities. I first noticed that change on 7-12-90. "Boston Clam Jam" was the standard post-Terrapin jam that they had been playing since Vince's second show in 1990 (the "jam out of Terrapin" from Richfield that's on So Many Roads). Overall, a solid, jammy show but I was puzzled by the choice of this date when it was first released and I'm still puzzled by it now. I didn't buy this when it came out, but I did pick it up from GDM when they still sold DP's directly but their stock was starting to diminish (grabbed DP29 around the same time, 'cause I'm not stupid all the time). The last time I pulled it out, a year or two ago, my impression was that it was a solid, jammy show, but the sloppiness really stood out for me that time, to the point where it detracted from the listening experience a bit. Maybe a bit of sloppiness in "China Doll"? Certainly "That Would be Something" had an "off-the-cuff" feel to it (Bruce is teasing "Dear Prudence" before Jerry committed to "TWBS"). In the end, it was a good time in person and it's a good listen. "Mighty Quinn" was probably my favorite of the standard "upbeat" encore songs, so that's a nice finish to the show, and of course the filler is killer (but too short... that Greensboro show featured a great "Playin" and some smokin' first-set songs). Fun fact: I took my dad to this show!
Dick’s Picks 17: 9/25/91 Boston Garden DiP 17 was the first one that I didn’t immediately buy when it came out. I’d already heard a lot of the Bruce-Vince era and always found it to be a bit erratic; I was also in graduate school at the time (limited CD money lying around) and didn’t feel like throwing down for it. Once in a while I would remember that I still hadn’t heard it, but never at a time when I was in the mood for ’91, so I actually never got to it until this week. Go figure. Notes & Highlights: Vince and Bruce have settled comfortably into their respective roles and sound well integrated in terms of their styles. My only real sound complaint (one that applies generally to this era, actually) is that the volume of both keyboards seems to fluctuate quite a bit throughout – Vince especially is often way too loud. The first set is fine but not spectacular and typically short. Despite some vocal flubs in Help, the opening trio is solid for the era. Jerry lays down a nice solo in Spliknot and Vince and Bruce are playing off each other nicely without being too busy. Roses is a beautiful and craggy latter-day version; ballads like that were made for Jerry’s old man voice. The crisp Dire Wolf is a nice bouncy surprise. The Music set closer is one of the sloppier versions I’ve heard. The second set gets off to a rocky start with Victim, which is one of my least favorite songs in their whole catalog. The intro to Crazy Fingers emerges from it like the bright summer sun after an especially nasty thunderstorm. ’91 is a good year for this song (6/22 at Soldier Field is a great one) – the arrangement leaves lots of space for both keyboard players to operate and the jam out of it is nice. The Playin’ jam is great and the transition into Terrapin with the phrase from between the Lady With a Fan verses is a cool thing they were doing around this time. It’s a typically majestic version that heads back into what sounds to me like a Playin’ jam – not sure why it needed to be renamed (Boston Clam Jam? TPTB are maybe not familiar with musical slang). They feint towards Dear Prudence coming out of Space, which would have been rad, but instead they slide into a way less rad and oddly placed McCartney tune (That Would Be Something) before coming quickly back into a Playin’ reprise. I’m never upset to hear China Doll, but this one is sloppy and doesn’t feature much in the way of soloing. A standard-issue Stones > NFA wraps it up before a fun Mighty Quinn encore. 3/31 in Greensboro is a show I’ve heard before, so the filler isn’t new to me. Samson is a little repetitive coming so soon after Stones on the disc (the solos follow the same rhythm and chord relationships), but the Eyes features some sublime jamming (even the midi sounds good) and interplay; it’s probably my favorite post-Brent version. This has its moments as detailed above, but in the grand scheme it ends up being kind of meh and isn’t one I’m rushing back to. I’d love to know why Dick wanted to release it so badly; 9/26 from the same run is a far more interesting, dynamic and just generally better show, and there are several other ‘91’s that would have been more deserving of release, IMO (4/1, 4/5, 6/22, 10/31 just to name a few more off the top of my head). It’s an ok listen, but I’m not kicking myself for forgetting about it until this week.
Ha ha, so, yes, I was remembering correctly. Also, I forgot to mention that on SBD tapes of this show (but not the release), you can her Bruce playing the opening melody from "Maria" (from West Side Story) before they open the second set with "Victim or the Crime" (which features the same tritone interval as "Maria"). One thing about 1990-91, and this Boston run in particular, is that they were doing a lot of little tuning jams before the sets that were often quite tasty as a little aperitif. Unfortunately, this one didn't survive intact on the official release (same with 3-24-90, now that I think of it).
