Gungnir Multibit or? <$1500

I'm already planning how to blow my tax returns and I really think the internal Sabre DAC on my Parasound Hint is the limiting factor in my system. Certain styles give me that clearly digital, rough around the edges, feeling and I'm pretty sure it's the DAC at fault. Maybe it's just the way some of these albums are mixed and mastered, but regardless, I'd like to try a DAC that's on par with the rest of my system and, in particular, a ladder DAC.

From everything I've read, the Gungnir Multibit is somewhat of a consensus winner for ladder DACs under $1500, but I want to do my research. Are there any directly comparable models from other manufacturers ?

Please don't suggest I stretch for something more expensive, as $1500 is already my budget being stretched, lol.

Thanks guys!

 

Metrum and Soekris make some nice DACs in that price range, but I personally like the Gungnir Multibit better.

 

Why do you point the finger at the ESS chip?

 

Mostly because it's probably the cheapest, least thought out link in my chain. Nobody buys the Hint for its DAC. Just from reading descriptions, a common theme is that a DAC has a large hand in how organic digital music can sound and there are times when it's just overtly clear I'm hearing a digital signal. I think it's a safe bet that a $1500 dedicated DAC will outperform the afterthought DAC in my $2500 integrated.

In short, I have upgrade-itus. There's nothing wrong with the ESS, but I'm shooting for something better.

 

The chip in your amp is the ES9018, it was state-of-the-art at the time of its introduction, but has since been superseded by newer ESS chips. You can read how it operates here:

Inside the DAC2 - Part 2 - Digital Processing

It is the chip used in the $55k Sennheiser Orpheus headphone system. Now, each product implementation is different, but the chip itself is not the limiting factor here!

 

I'm using a Gungnir Multibit (most people just call it 'Gumby') and I'm comparing it directly to my Yggdrasil. I obviously prefer the bigger brother of the Gumby, its bigger, better and badder. Bass hits faster, and sound is a tad more focused. It's like, 5% better, and for me, I'd rather just get the better dac and not think to myself 'am I missing out' ? However if you're okay with 95% performance (and saving 1000 buck) just go get the Gumby, you won't be disappointed. Another major factor: Gumby takes 2-3 days to warm up to near completion, after a week you're absoloutely good to go. Yggy? About 3 times that, and there's periods in between where it will sound much worse day to day.

 

I wasn't necessarily blaming the chip. I know that the same chip can sound drastically different depending on the implementation, but again, I don't see people buying my amp for the DAC. It hardly gets brought up in reviews except that it sounds "fine", which I absolutely agree with, lol. I just want better than fine. Also, most reviews of the Hint have mentioned the analog inputs sounding more lively. I'd like to take advantage of my XLR inputs.

 

No doubt man, I'm all for 95% performance and an extra thousand bucks in my pocket. All of my gear is basically mid tier, so I'm not sure I'd notice the gains moving up to their top of the line.

 

Are you completely set on a ladder DAC?

 

Not necessarily, but for the most part, yes. I have been sold by interviews and reviews. The 15 day trial from Schiit is a big selling point for this particular DAC as well. I am, however, open to suggestion.

 

I’ve owned several devices with ESS SabreDacs and I think my Gumby is way above any of them. The implementation is the key, but I thought every ESS based unit I’ve owned had a bit of a hard edge except, notably, the Pono and Nova150.

Generally, I have found units with the Burr-Brown chips more to my liking but I can’t say for sure that the implementations have everything to do with it.

The Gumby has a 3D quality that I just haven’t heard on any others I’ve owned. But then it is by far the most high end Dedicated DAC I’ve owned. None of the ESS dacs ive owned were dedicated pieces. I would love to take something like the Wadia di322 for a spin for comparison.

 

And this is exactly why I am enamored with the idea of this DAC. Almost every single review I've read, personal and professional, has sounded like yours. I have also never had a standalone DAC. They've always been part of some kind of integrated amp. I want to try the real deal, and that "hard edge" you're talking about is exactly what I'm dealing with currently.

 

OK then. I owned a Gungnir MB for about 9-10 months, and recently moved to a Benchmark DAC3 HGC. Admittedly, the DAC3 is a bit outside of your price range, but they offer a DAC3 without the HP amp for several hundred less.

I thought the Gumby was quite good.

IMO, however, the DAC3 is a completely superior DAC to the Gumby. It’s really not even close - the difference is startling. An aside: my wife, who goes out of her way to not care about audio gear (and who has no interest in discerning SQ differences) had one casual listen to the DAC3, and 10 minutes in she exclaimed that I should not send that one back because it was so good. The fact that she noticed it so easily didn’t surprise me.

I was definitely on the Schiit wagon big time. Then I learned more.

 

So why did you write: "I really think the internal Sabre DAC on my Parasound Hint is the limiting factor in my system"?

Just so that you are aware, the DAC in the Benchmark is the newer ESS ES9028PRO in a dual differential configuration (the chips can also be run in mono mode for even better performance, but then you need at least one chip per channel, and that pushes up the cost!). In my experience, devices which properly implement the ESS SABRE chips (which is not trivial) do not have any 'hard edge' to their sound. My reference headphone system (Sonoma Model One) uses the 9028PRO in mono mode, so I do a lot of listening via ESS:

Sonoma Acoustics’ Model One electrostatic headphone

Doug's response above does not surprise me, Benchmark know what they are doing.

Benchmark DAC3 HGC D/A preamplifier-headphone amplifier

(you would want the L version, unless you need a quality headphone section too)

 

I just blamed the internal DAC as a whole, not the chip itself. I only identified the type as a descriptor. I don't know why you're hung up on that, lol. I simply don't like this implementation.

 

I've done some reading up on the DAC3 and it's definitely added to my short list. At $2k, it's not crazy out of my price range. One question though, it says on their product page that it's intended to plug directly into a power amp, which I won't be doing. I would be going XLR to the Hint. Is there a way to bypass the volume control on the DAC3?

 

anyone care to comment on the headphone amp on the dac3 ? I see they sell it with the HD 650. I have the 600 and 6xx a future upgrade all in one scenario is appealing to me.

 

That's a ringing endorsement that makes me want to check out the DAC3.

Have you compared the Yiggy to the DAC3? I'm curious because both are similar in price and I'm currently on the Schiit wagon!

 

Yep. Output channels can be switched to their HT mode, which sets the DAC3 to unity and passes the signal downstream. That’s also how it’s configured when using their HPA4 HP amp. Rory at Benchmark is great at answering any and all questions you might have.

 

I haven’t. I think there are some comparisons out on the net, and the Audio Science Review folks have some thoughts on those two as well.

 

Awesome! Thanks for your input. It's easy to get your mind set on one thing and not let go. I find this forum invaluable for breaking that habit. I probably would have bought different speakers, had I known of this forum at the time.

 

I think their DAC3 HP amp is very good. Only reason I don’t use it is because I got their HPA4 HP amp, which is just incredible. I use(d) both with my Senn HD800S.

 

The OP sounded like he was coming straight here from SBAF. Schiit dacs are very good indeed but there are just as potent dacs outthere in their pricerange.

 

You could also consider the Border Patrol- I bought one after the trial period. The SE, which has the beefier power supply, but coax input only. I rolled the tube recently with great success; a decent coax and power cord, nothing too crazy. It took a while to burn in, and I'm using it with a CEC transport as well as with a computer based front end, employing the Schitt Eitr to convert the usb to coax, which it does very effectively and cheaply.
I don't compare digital to vinyl, but I didn't adopt any digital in my main system 'til recently. I'm very pleased with the quality of sound I'm getting from what I consider to be a relatively modest investment, based on a standard that I never expected digital (at least at these lower price points) to meet- no artificiality, very organic, open sounding, engaging and non-fatiguing.
I'm sure there are many other DACs that could fit the bill as well.

 

Just $200 cheaper.