Gungnir Multibit or? <$1500

I don't have a lot to compare it to, but in my experience, the KEF uni-Q driver is pretty darn good at imagining, and I've read that as being one of its strong points also. Fine tuning that imaging sounds like fun It's one of my favorite things about moving up to decent speakers, but I don't know how they compare to others. I went from Polk 75T ($400/pair) to KEF R500 and have subsequently upgraded my whole chain since then and done kinda substantial acoustic treatment. The improvements have been breathtaking.

My speaker selection...I'm not even sure how I came to it anymore. Just looked at a lot in the price range, saw a deal on one of the ones I was really interested in and pulled the trigger. The amp selection was also easy because a local dealer I had experience with was willing to sell the display model Parasound integrated for less than $2k and let me take it home for a few days to check it out. Went back, handed him my credit card, and told him he could pry it from my cold dead hands, lol. But this DAC decision has been tedious and everything I've heard has me second guessing and totally unsure of what the hell I should do. Sure, there's in home trials of most of these products, but you still pay a substantial fee to change your mind...not like the local guy. He has next to nothing when it comes to DACs. What to do? Ugh

 

Trying to choose a DAC based just on reading reviews is going to drive you crazy. There is no way to make sense of the reviews until you listen to some of the DACs under review. A review can describe a DAC as analytical, but you won't understand what an analytical DAC means until you listen to one or a couple. Same with NOS DACs. Words can try to explain what NOS DACs sound like, but those words won't make sense until you hear some NOS DACs.

Try to hear some DACs by going to audio shows or local audio club meets or dealers. I go to head-fi meetups and other meets where I get to hear gear. And local dealers.

Speakers image better than headphones. As long as the speakers are properly set up and you sit between the speakers. If you listen off axis a lot or have poor speaker positioning then the imaging advantages I described about the Schiit multibits won't really apply. There are other things about the Schiit multibits that I like, but if I'm not able to get the imaging with them due to setup then there are some other DACs that I could like as well or better.

There isn't one best DAC.

 

It's tough around here. Pretty depressed area and kind of insane that there is even one local hifi shop that carries the good stuff. I have a very demanding job that requires a lot of driving and the last thing I want to do on my day off is drive somewhere far away. Gonna have to throw a dart or something, lol. I somehow doubt I'll dislike any of the options I'm considering and on the odd chance that I REALLY dislike what I buy, I can always bite the trial period bullet if I have to. I am over thinking this whole thing at this point. That stupid ANK has the hobbiest in me feeling excited now and that's a new problem

 

Then buying used and trying a DAC may be the way to go. If it's a DAC that is in demand and easy to sell then you can buy it, try it, and if you don't like it you can resell it without losing much money. Or buy a new DAC from some place that has good returns and not too much of a restocking fee.

Many people here have had to buy and try several different DACs before finding one that suits them. Buy, try, sell, churn till you find one that does the trick.

 

From what it sounds like, a non-oversampling DAC might well be what you're after. IME they have a way eschewing that nagging digital feeling, insomuch as source material allows. Can see which hold their value well used and be patient (not always easy) so when something comes up you can pass it on for minimal loss if it doesn't hit the spot.

I'd also suggest the humble Rega DAC as a cheaper option, if one happens to come up cheap to try out. Nice natural, un-forced delivery and just easy to listen to.

 

Another NOS DAC which may be of interest is the MHDT Lab Pagoda (Balanced Version). It uses 4 PCM1704 multibit chips capable of 24/192 (no DSD). It sells for $1580 on Linear Tube Audio's website, which is where I purchased my single-ended Pagoda. MHDT Lab has been around for a while but continues to be mostly under the radar. Terrific performance/value ratio. For me, the Pagoda presents gobs of detail, great dynamics, and no digital harshness. The sound isn't mushy, soft, rolled-off, or "tubey" in any way but rather natural and engaging. Good luck with your search.

 

Now this one was totally off my radar. Never heard of them. Actually has BNC and XLR and apparently is an actual 24 bit dac. Thank you! Definitely the most promising suggestion so far.

 

Thank for posting Ham, that's really interesting. Earlier this year I bought a Schiit Modi2 Multibit to attach to my Onkyo c7030. I didn't have any other DACs for comparison but I wanted to try a low-cost Schiit to see if it was better than the smooth Wolfson DAC in the Onkyo. The folks at Schiit recommended their multibit units as the best option for decoding redbook. The Modi2 Multibit gave greater extension and detail at the frequency extremes but the biggest difference was the imaging. As you say, the Schiit multibit really places images well within the soundstage (my experience is with speakers not headphones). I don't have other DACs on hand for comparison but I'm very happy with the result and considering upgrading to a Gungnir multibit next year.

The only downside of the Modi2 Multibit, aside from its lack of upgradeability, is that it gets very warm and must be left on all the time, so ventilation is needed. I don't know if the other Schiit DACs are like that.

 

Schiit recommends their DACs be left on all the time. I leave my Gumby on all the time. It gets warm, but not overly so. I believe I have 3"-4" of clearance up top.

Like you, I dipped my toes into the world of Schiit DACs with the Modi 2 Multibit. I only had my venerable HeadRoom MicroDAC and a DragonFly Red with which to compare. The Mimby became my go-to DAC for (at the time) headphone listening (I paired it with an Eitr, which converted USB to SPIDF). It gave me a warm, punchy experience with excellent separation and placement. The MicroDAC was really close, and may have had a "blacker" background, but it seemed slightly less engaging and distant. The DragonFly Red is a nice little USB stick DAC, but I thought it had a small soundstage and cold, overly "digital" presentation. All three DACs are good pieces of equipment, IMHO. I just liked the Mimby a little more.

I eventually upgraded to Gumby, and it gave me everything I liked about the Mimby - and took it up couple of notches. I'd like to hear other DACs in Gumby's price range at some point, but it isn't high on my list of audio priorities. I've transitioned to more speaker listening (vs. headphones), and I'm very happy with Gumby. Maybe there's something I might like better in the price range, but I don't feel the need to find it.

 

After much deliberation, I decided that I needed to end this internal debate sooner than later and I pulled the trigger on the ANK DAC 2.1. I just couldn't contain the excitement I felt when I thought about assembling that beast and couldn't find a bad word about Audio Note anywhere I looked. The Pagoda really intrigued me, but the lack of exposure meant it was pretty difficult to find many reviews. Most reviews for the brand were of the Havana.

So, in the end, I chose a DAC that forces almost the same limitations as the Border Patrol (RCA for both digital and analog signals), but it has a more modern DAC chip with a true 18 bit resolution as opposed to like 12 with the BP. It's crazy that what made this decision for me was the hobbyist nature of the ANK, but hey, it is what it is. I figure it will be almost future proof with the ability to upgrade components later on and flexible, considering I can try out different tubes. My credit card is going to have to take the brunt until tax return time...woops. I just couldn't wait until 2019 and it's already a three week wait time to ship the kit I'll be antsy for a while.

 

You have chosen wisely

 

I just spent $1700 on a bag of parts. I sure hope I know what I'm doing, haha.

 

My concern with trying an Audio Note DAC is that they're designed to be used with preamps that have a really high input impedance like 100 kOhms or something like that. Is an Audio Note DAC going to work well with your amp?

 

The P5 has 25kOhm RCA input, so I would guess the same would be true of the Hint. I didn't see anything on their website about impedance matching, so I assumed it'd be in a normal range. Now you've got me worried. I already paid.

 

I thought I read something about a pot on the output board for this purpose. I'm communicating with their support right now.

 

Why not take about 10 minutes and talk to Richard Schram at Parasound about your feelings that the DAC in the Parasound Hint could be the culprit. He is very helpful and talks to anyone with a question. I don't personally think you are going to hear any difference in the Hint DAC and say a Gungnir Multibit DAC, but hey, I could be wrong. I believe Richard will be very helpful and informative, and the call is FREE and his advice or suggestions are FREE. Why not pick his brain, it's what I love about Parasound, and like you, I have the Hint and honestly have never experienced any edgy or poor sound while using the internal DAC. Good luck, and I hope you make the call!

 

Here's a post that mentions the impedance matching for Audio Note DACs
Tube DAC for Croft 25/7 and Harbeth 30.1??

In the linked PDF manual the suggestion from Audio Note is the the DAC is designed for 100 kOhm.

 

Looks like I'm correct in that there is a modification for this. Since I'm building from scratch, this won't be any additional work probably. Currently waiting for a response from ANK. He already replied to say he'd include a BNC connector in the kit. Hurray!

 

Perhaps it's not the DAC. I might be going down this rabbit hole for nothing, haha. Beyond possible SQ improvements, I mostly want a new toy that will make me feel like I've covered all my bases. It's a psychological disorder, I know

 

Congrats. Best of luck with the build.

 

@Ham Sandwich

From Brian at ANK

"24k is low but no problem- the output impedence is 1.3k on the 2.1 and usually a 1:5 to 1-10 ratio is fine

The original dac1.1 had a 10k output and i remember we were asking for 50k input on next device- so no worries at all !"

The 100 kOhms recommendation is old news I guess.

 

That's good news. I remember reading that the Audio Note DACs have a high output inpedance. Good to see the new versions have a lower output inpedance that makes them compatible with more gear. Now I see that my headphone amps would work fine with that DAC. If I ever get a chance to try an Audio Note DAC now I'm willing to give it a try if I get a chance.

You're going to have fun. NOS is a neat style of DAC sound. It will very much be different than the Sabre based DAC that is in your Parasound. Sabre DACs are generally very much on the side of the spectrum that sprays the imaging out to the skin of the balloon and leaves the inside somewhat empty. NOS DACs are generally on the side of the spectrum that fills in the balloon but foggy. The two are on different sides of the imaging spectrum.

 

I'm very excited. I figure, even if it's not the ultimate answer, I'll be crossing off an early bucket list item of building a component level kit. I've strongly considered it with amps and condenser microphones in the past. I'm also hoping that it will have decent resale value if it's not exactly what I'm looking for, but not sure how that stuff pans out when it's not factory built. Either way, I've already excitedly cleared my old work space in anticipation. Can't wait to fire up the Hakko!

 

I have been enjoying an ANK 2.1 DAC for about 6 weeks now - thanks @Rolltide - and finally have a DAC that is very nearly as enjoyable as vinyl in my system. Hard to imagine a significant improvement without spending more that I am willing to.

 

I'd been meaning to ask how that was working out for you, glad you like it!