I find the early 90s rock scene to be a neat little intersection of two very different worlds: Hair Metal, and Grunge. For many in the alternative scene, especially Kurt Cobain, Guns N’ Roses represented the worst excesses in rock music. In the wake of releasing their single, Smells Like Teen Spirit, Kurt Cobain would say: “We’re not your typical Guns ‘N’ Roses type of band that has absolutely nothing to say.” Kurt would later state: "I can't think of a damn thing (I like about Guns N’ Roses). I can't even waste my time on that band because they're so obviously pathetic and untalented. I used to think that everything in the mainstream pop world was crap, but now that some underground bands have been signed with majors, I take Guns N'Roses as more of an offence. I have to look into it more: They're really talent less people, and they write crap music, and they're the most popular rock band on earth right now. I can't believe it." Other grunge personalities would follow suit in criticism such as Faith No More. Yet, Axl Rose, the lead singer of GN’R, had been extremely supportive of the Alternative movement even before it had become mainstream: “I have seen the future of rock'n'roll, and it is Faith No More." - Axl, 1989 “Faith No More is by far the best band I’ve ever seen. I’m jealous" - Axl, 1989 “I enjoy Soundgarden. The singer just buries me. The guy sings so great.” - Axl, August 1989 AXL: “I just think that they're having a lot of problems with who they are and who they want to be and trying to hold onto it at the same time. At least Kurt is. I'd like to be as supportive as I can, but I don't know how much he will allow support. To write a song like "Smells Like Teen Spirit" making fun of your songwriting and then have it used as an anthem has got to be a complete mind****. The man definitely has a mountain to rise above. I think there is a part of him that has the strength and desire to do it. I just don't know if he's able to get in touch with it. I had an advance copy of that record and it became my favorite. I would put it on repeatedly. Nirvana has helped me do my job. I think that the world has gotten really bored, really fed up and really pent up with frustration, and that comes through in Nirvana. I think a lot of people were aware of that feeling and he happened to find the song that touched it and was able to let that feeling out in people. And I'd like to do anything I can to support it. That's why we want them to play with us." - February 1992 He also invited Nine Inch Nails to open for GN’R in Germany in August 1991, long before their type of music would be truly mainstream, and had also considered inviting NWA to open for GN’R in 1991. In a way, Guns N’ Roses existed at a weird mid point in rock history, being between and amongst two very wild and fascinating scenes that hit their apexes in the early 90s. They were too real to be truly part of the Hair Metal scene, too soft for the hardcore Metal scene and too commercial for Grunge and punk scenes. Sadly for whatever reason the alternative musicians never accepted GN’R.
?? Accept, how? If they don't like the music or, particularly, the lyrics — what else are they meant to "accept"? NIN did open for Guns and their audience pelted the stage with projectiles. Bad idea, Axl
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that perhaps the overtly sexist lyrics didn't resonate with grunge/alt rock's ethos.
If we're just going by what is presented here, Cobain was being a mouthy douche in his comments. Axl has been open-minded about music and will praise and promote fellow bands. I seem to remember him pushing Jane's Addiction when they were new as well. He doesn't really need to do it, he just seems to want to help promote them. I don't fully get the 'alternative musicians never accepted GN’R' comment. Grunge was simply the new thing. It was about moving away from the pretentiousness of what a lot of hard rock was at the time (overdone music production, glam metal, excess, etc). Once that trend was done with, there was some overlap. Scott Weiland started a band with a few GN'R members 10 years or so later. Dave Grohl has played with everyone imaginable, including GN'R.
100% this also I think the music was far too close to hair metal. I know that’s a point of contention and folks don’t like to lump them into that scene. But to me as a kid in the late 80s/early 90s, that’s what they came from. That’s what they were aligned with. The music, the excess, the misogyny, it all blended together into a package that represented everything the punk/indie/alternative world was reacting against
Yeah, it was the lyrics and the ridiculous videos that made alternative types not like Guns N Roses. Most of which occurred after Appetite, which most of the people I knew in alt bands liked quite a bit. Hard to get behind the sentiments of "One in A Million" or "Back Off Bitch" or the song where Axl yells at all the journalists. It was all Axl, most musicians I knew liked the rest of the (original) band.
History has proven this to be all nonsense, though entertaining. Axl certainly has/had his issues, but as far as relates to late 20th century popular music, you won't find a bigger confused hypocrite than Cobain. Sure, he didn't like GNR's music or lyrics. Fine. But plenty of the music he grew up listening to/liked had lyrics with sexist content. Musically, he knew his band was inferior to even a group like GNR. So there was obvious petty jealousy in that regard, and that's also why he slagged off so many other bands (including some of his own, e.g., Pearl Jam). Finally, Nirvana played the corporate game with the best of them. Major label, big production, videos, MTV Unplugged, Rolling Stone magazine covers, etc. -- all while Cobain tried to front this apathetic "I don't give a s***" veil. Nowadays, Grohl and Axl have made peace, and I believe Duff and Novoselic have as well. If Cobain were still alive, it would be interesting to see if there would have been olive branches extended on either side.
This 100% except it wasn't just alternative types that quickly tired of Alx's immaturity (for lack of a better word). Don't think I've ever heard someone say Slash wasn't a talented guitarist before....
Kurt would later state: "I can't think of a damn thing (I like about Guns N’ Roses). I can't even waste my time on that band because they're so obviously pathetic and untalented. I used to think that everything in the mainstream pop world was crap, but now that some underground bands have been signed with majors, I take Guns N'Roses as more of an offence. I have to look into it more: They're really talent less people, and they write crap music, and they're the most popular rock band on earth right now. I can't believe it." This is really a childish, stupid comment.
Yes and no. They played the game where they had to but worked to be subversive where they could. And tried to use their new clout to help their friends and indie bands they admired. Not many other bands at their level would do an Unplugged the way Nirvana did - all live, ignoring almost every big hit, lots of covers, bringing out the Meat Puppets to perform, things like that. They used their platform to try and bring awareness to the music and issues they cared about. Only Nevermind has anything close to glossy production. Once they were big enough to do what they wanted, they did a rough edged record with Steve Albini. Cobain knew he had to play the game sometimes but I think he was pretty successful in making it work his way
Kurt was just jealous because GnR had Duff McKagen, who had more Seattle punk rock cred than Kurt could ever have.
I remember those years very well, and stand by my comment. Nirvana were on the corporate horse, and that was likely a big source of inner conflict for Cobain.
Indeed. Cobain wanted to be a rich and famous rock star, but he also wanted to be appreciated by all the cool indie kids in Olympia. Trying to square that circle gave him a lot of grief.
I don’t think I would classify GNR as hair metal, more of a sub of LA glam: Faster Pussycat, LAGuns, etc., trashy, aware of punk whereas, hair metal like Winger, Warrant, Slaughter, etc., didn’t really acknowledge punk( looked more to VH and Zep) and some could play at a really high level. However, misogyny was ripe in both scenes unfortunately.
I'm sure that was a huge source of conflict for him. but I remember those years well too and the band stood out for the way they did things. That's a big part of why they resonated with me and my friends, 11-13 years old at the time. For kids back then, seeing them mess around with the way a band was "supposed" to do things was really exciting.
I find Kurt's attitude kind of ironic. I was a junior in high school when GnR exploded in late '88-'89 and they were the one band that crossed all social borders. Punks, metalheads, jocks, stoners, you name it - everybody loved them. And I was a sophomore in college with Nevermind went supernova and, yes, everyone from frat boys to indie rockers adored it. The Illusion albums came out within a week of Nevermind and within a couple of months, were starting to be viewed through the "Teen Spirit" prism - and as such seemed bloated and kind of ridiculous in comparison to what, to me at least, seemed like the new Appetite.
When you admonish certain artists for playing the corporate game, and your band does the same types of things, it's hypocrisy.
I found articles that said EVH showed up backstage at a Nirvana show and that KC was so excited that he kissed EVH on the mouth.
