Guns N' Roses Tour Has Earned $230 Million and still going stong

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by segue, Apr 27, 2017.

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  1. jujuhounds

    jujuhounds Forum Resident

    Location:
    United States
    Sorry this took a minute to come, I just got back from Canada seeing a few more GN'R shows. Can't wait for the arena tour!

    Pacific Ocean Blue-

    This tour is the same 'project' as the Chinese Democracy era, which was the same 'project' as the Use Your Illusion era, which was the same 'project' as the Appetite For Destruction era. It's all Guns N' Roses. This tour just happens to be in stadiums as opposed to arenas.

    When Duff McKagan performed with the band in 2014 on the South American tour (and in Los Angeles and Las Vegas), he was paid a flat per night fee. Obviously with him not being in the band at the time, but filling in for Tommy, he wasn't going to get paid 250k a night to perform.

    This present tour was not conceived as a 'reunion' of the core original lineup. First and foremost, Slash and Duff McKagan are NOT original members of GN'R. No amount of attempted history rewriting will change this undeniable and indisputable fact. The only reason Slash and Duff are currently in the band is because slots opened up that allowed them to join. Axl wouldn't have fired anyone to make room for Slash or Duff. That's not how he operates. Axl is if not the most, one of the most honest and loyal people in the music business.

    Izzy had expressed interest in playing, but he was never going to be offered more than his usual flat rate for 3 or 4 songs whenever/wherever. Izzy is not in GN'R anymore. Izzy was never going to be the second guitarist in place of Richard Fortus. In fact, the third guitarist was going to be Dave Kushner (Velvet Revolver), but he was pushed out after Slash's eleventh hour demand for more money that almost cancelled the entire tour.

    Izzy is unable to be trusted to commit to a full length tour.


    Sound Advice-

    Most people used to think the world was flat. Most people used to think the Earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around it. Most people used to think Earth was 'young'. What most people do and think, if they're wrong, is wrong. Velvet Revolver is Velvet Revolver, not Guns N' Roses. Slash's Snakepit is Slash's Snakepit, not Guns N' Roses. Neither of those bands are more GN'R than GN'R itself.

    Semantics make everything. Semantics is the meaning of a word. Chinese Democracy is legally and musically as Guns N' Roses as it gets. Why? Simply put, because Axl said so. Axl Rose determines what is and is not GN'R. Not you, not me, not some random fan online who whines and complains about anything and everything. Only Axl.

    The reason they've done 6 Chinese Democracy songs and nothing by the other band members is this is a Guns N' Roses tour. Chinese is a Guns N' Roses album. So, of course, they are going to play songs from the various Guns N' Roses records.

    Axl has not been absent from all rehearsals. That is a flat out lie. You should retract that statement. Just tonight Guns N' Roses put up videos of Axl at soundcheck. I also have a 3 hour rehearsal video in which Axl is visible. Just because you don't see him onstage at soundcheck (which is not rehearsal), does not mean he is absent from rehearsals when he needs to be there. But again, that is for Axl to decide, not you. And clearly, he's been making the right choices as to how often to rehearse, since everyone that's attended the shows has had a blast and walked away impressed with how Axl sounds.


    George Costanza-

    Guns N' Roses has 4 proper studio albums, Appetite For Destruction, Use Your Illusion I, Use Your Illusion II, and Chinese Democracy. As I said in a post somewhere else in this thread, Spaghetti was originally intended to be an under the radar EP for the hardcore fans with Guns covering the songs that they loved. Yes, 2 of the songs from Use Your Illusion were covers. One of them (Heaven's Door) and been performed regularly since the early club days. One of them was just for fun and ended up becoming one of their biggest singles. Why is this a bad thing, or indicate that they don't have 'enough good songs' as you put it? That's silly of you to say.


    Sound Advice-

    Ron quit in South America in 2014 because nobody wanted to write with him. He complained forever about it, and finally grew a pair and walked.

    As for Dj Ashba....after the 2014 Las Vegas residency, the band was told to go find other work while Axl put the finishing touches on the album and submitted it to the label. The original plan was submit album in 2014, release album in 2015, tour in 2016. By the end of 2014, Guns had been touring pretty much non-stop since December of 2009. It was time for them to take a small break and let public demand build back up. During this time, Nikki Sixx approached Dj and offered him a choice. Quit Guns N' Roses and record a double album with Sixx: A.M. and go on a 2 year world tour OR stay in GN'R, quit Sixx: A.M. and have an uncertain future. While Dj had talked **** about Nikki to Axl, Ashba ended up choosing the guaranteed album/tour deal. He had a PR company draft up that letter and well, the rest is pretty much open.

    Is John McVie an original member of Fleetwood Mac? I don't know anything about that band but a quick Google search shows me that the original Fleetwood Mac lineup is Peter Green, Mick Fleetwood, Jeremy Spencer and Bob Brunning. It shows McVie did not join the band initially. That would make him, by definition, not an original member. Why did I bring it up? Because Slash and Duff are not original members. I don't rewrite history. I don't live in a fantasy world where facts don't matter. I take GN'R very seriously, and this is a rather common misconception.

    The members from the classic era on Chinese Democracy are Axl Rose, Dizzy Reed, and Paul Tobias. This is half of the lineup of Axl/Slash/Paul/Duff/Matt/Dizzy, which recorded and released Sympathy For The Devil. The classic era of Guns N' Roses is most commonly referred to as 1987-1994, or the stretch from Appetite to Sympathy.

    Cut the Crap is a Clash album. It's their sixth. A Momentary Lapse of Reason is a (4x platinum) Pink Floyd album. The last few Pumpkins albums are Pumpkins album. I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here? If an artist creates an album and releases it under a name they have legal right to release the music under, that makes it an album with that band's name. If Axl wanted to record himself farting into a microphone 15 times and release it as the next Guns N' Roses album, he could, and it would be the next Guns N' Roses album.

    Nice attempt at a dig at Axl. When he runs offstage, he changes his shirt and gets oxygen. But F him right?

    That's great, and I'm happy for you. Axl Rose is not Robert Plant. Slash is not Jimmy Page. You can't compare them like that. What Robert wants to do at his shows and what Axl wants to do at his shows are different.

    Have you considered that they didn't want pictures out, and wanted to build the hype? It was great PR move to not have any official pictures of them together until they hit the stage.

    Not sure what your dig at the teleprompters is, but ok?


    Hotel Yorba 101-

    Chinese is the next step forward from Illusion. It's ok if you don't like it. I'm not angry. Music is subjective and people should like what they like, but it is at the end of the day legally a GN'R album and musically a GN'R album.

    As stated above, Axl, Dizzy and Paul are all on the record and were all in the band during the classic era.


    Sound Advice-

    Contraband was released in June 2004. Chinese Democracy was released in November 2008. As someone on a music forum, you should know how drastically the industry and shifted in just that short time alone. Sales were down, pirated albums were up. But, Chinese Democracy went platinum faster than Appetite, Lies or Spaghetti. Not that sales should have anything to do with anything.

    The 14 million dollars spent between 1998 and 2007 were not just for Chinese Democracy. Multiple albums were recorded in that time. And all of it was recovered immediately by the Best Buy deal, so the very first Chinese Democracy copy sold turned a profit for Universal.
     
  2. HotelYorba101

    HotelYorba101 Senior Member

    Location:
    California
    I wasn't aware Axl Rose's PR guy browses the Steve Hoffman Forum
     
  3. bob60

    bob60 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London UK
    Extremely long and gushing post/lecture that only a super fan boy could write......
     
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  4. lordfalconer

    lordfalconer Forum Resident

    I love G n' R but man- fanboyism is a terrifying thing!
     
  5. steveharris

    steveharris Senior Member

    Location:
    Mass
    So will there be a 30th deluxe edition?
     
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  6. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    The Edmonton Journal ran an article and quoted Ron Chamberlain, the Live Nation Production Manager for the Tour, before the show in Edmonton on August 30.

    "Chamberlain said the length of the show has been extended throughout the tour as the band wants to play more songs to ensure they cover off their catalogue. The show now runs just over three hours and 20 minutes, Chamberlain said. . . . . Guns N’ Roses will be ready to rock around 7:30 p.m., with Craig emphasizing they will be on time."

    They've increased the show by 30 minutes over the already epic shows they played before the latest (US) leg of the tour.
     
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  7. Szeppelin75

    Szeppelin75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Panama
    Slash and Duff ARE original members that recorded the first GNR album Appetite, what the F#$% are you talking about them not being original members? who is an original member to you?, Ole, Tracii? cheez. I someone didnt record with a band on their first album then no, they are not the original members that the public knows.
     
  8. Eobard Thawne

    Eobard Thawne Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    Oh snap, they are playing in my hometown tonight, the rock/pop stations are playing GNR every second song. I dunno, if I didn't have to work early tomorrow I'd go.

    Hopefully this tour will be pro-recorded. I saw Guns (nu-Guns) twice in the last decade.
     
  9. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Recommendation. Go. They'll take the stage at 7:30 p.m. - enjoy the first two hours and 45 minutes or so (the main set) and then leave around 10:15 so you can beat the traffic. You can watch the encore on youtube or something.
     
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  10. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Yeah, I thought that was an odd statement. It's like saying Ringo was not an original member of the Beatles, Keith Moon was not an original member of the Who, and John Paul Jones was not an original member of Led Zeppelin. But, I guess that while most of the rest of the world looks at the recorded debut album as representing a group's "original lineup", you could also say the "original lineup" is whoever happened to be there when the members adopted the name that became famous.

    It would seem a bit odd to take the position that Keith Moon was not an original member of the Who, but I'm not sure it's worth arguing about.
     
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  11. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    I'm seeing in the show on Friday in Vancouver after the blew out some $30 tickets.

    I've heard the rumors of multiple ChiDem albums for 10-12 years. No idea why nothing new surfaced in the past 9 years.
     
  12. Serious question, do you work for Axl Rose?
     
  13. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    From what I have seen and heard, that is not the case. You make it sound like this particular tour is simply an extension of all other GNR touring from the past several years, with Slash and Duff simply plugged in. It is a fact that the two major concert promoters, AEG and Live Nation, approached the Axl/GNR camp, the Duff McKagan camp, and the Slash camp about the three parties reforming for a some form of a "reunion" tour. IIRC, AEG made it a condition that at the minimum, Axl, Duff and Slash would have to be part of any touring activity for there to be an offer for Coachella and other shows. This Axl/Duff/Slash tour is very much different than the past several years of Chinese Democracy related touring. There is absolutely no way the touring guarantees would have been at the level they are without the involvement of key GNR members from the band's 1987-1993 period; the promoters did not see Izzy's involvement as a key factor in marketing this event.

    As far as the "original" line-up is concerned, while you are technically correct that Slash and McKagan were not founding members during the inception of what became GNR, for all intents and purposes, they are considered original members. If we are going to get technical, can Keith Moon be considered an original member of The Who? Was Ray Manzarek's brother a founding member of The Doors? It starts to get silly, and in no way is anyone "rewriting history" to assert Slash and Duff were "original" members of GNR -- they may not have been founding members at the first second musicians came together to form what ultimately became GNR, but the consensus is that they are original members.

    As far as I understand it, the current revenue split adopts the terms of UYI era arrangement, which clearly has nothing to do with the Chinese Democracy era financials and contractual arrangements.

    I still have not seen any viable argument that Izzy cannot be trusted to commit to a full length tour. He said he wanted to rejoin for this "reunion," and essentially was frozen out due to an unwillingness by the other three to create an equitable split of the revenues. Of course, that is his perspective, and Axl has insinuated that he does not think Izzy is reliable. As far as I can tell, neither Duff or Slash have said much about the issue. And with regard to your assertion that Izzy was never going to be offered more than his flat rate for a guest spot, how do you come to that conclusion? This entire tour was built around a revised revenue split -- it was not simply Duff and Slash filling in for other guys under the same terms of the Chinese Democracy touring structure. Therefore, if everyone was agreeing to new revenue splits, there is no reason why Izzy's rate could not have been altered and restructured as well (not taking into account that he has asserted he wanted to play full time).
     
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  14. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Contraband sold 2.9m copies in the US. I can't find real US sales for ChiDem above 500k. The music biz didn't shrink 80% in those 3-4 years.

    ChiDem Platinum(then a million in US) was for the 1.3m albums SHIPPED. Best Buy heavily discounted a huge number of those albums they pre purchased. IIRC, Best Buy never did another major retailer exclusive album.
     
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  15. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    It is well known that Best Buy was ultimately unhappy with the performance of its exclusive deal for Chinese Democracy. Frankly, I think had the album been released exclusively by Best Buy several years earlier, it would have made a far greater impact. By the time it finally happened, a number of factors contributed to the lukewarm domestic performance of the album. Nevertheless, I am happy that Best Buy came to the rescue and that Azoff was able to make that deal, because otherwise, who knows if the album would have ever come out.
     
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  16. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Not to mention the use of the 2 vintage GNR logos and contracts hinging on shows finishing before midnight.

    I thought AEG acted alone and offered silly money just for the 4 Coachella/Vegas shows
     
  17. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Senior Member

    Location:
    The Southwest
    That may have been the case with AEG. I think GNR then made a stadium deal with Live Nation.
     
  18. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    It didn't help that Axl did virtually zero direct promotion on the album. BB were stupid not to stick a clause in the contract for a couple Axl interviews(even if just print only magazine interview)
     
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  19. ubertrout

    ubertrout Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Not defending the bizarre post you're responding to, but the US music market did tumble dramatically in those years. Retail sales went from $11.4 billion in 2004 to $5.4 billion in 2008. So not 80%, but...

    Source: http://www.musicaememoria.com/docs/riaa-year-end-report-2008.pdf
     
  20. gritty

    gritty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, MA
    To me, and many others, GN’R as a creative entity died when Izzy left in ’91.
    They were still a powerhouse live until ’93.

    2001 GN’R was an embarrassing time to be a fan.

    2006 was a nice comeback for Axl. He was in shape, and good voice.
    The rest of the band he put together did little for me.

    Chinese Democracy was never going to live up to the hype, but I didn’t expect it to be as poor as it was/is.
    Up to that point, I hadn’t heard an Axl composition I didn’t like, other than My World.
    Chinese Democracy certainly changed that. Brutal.

    The endless Chinese Democracy tour had it’s moments, but became redundant, and the revolving door of musicians just further cheapened the GN’R brand.

    The current tour is as GN’R as we are most likely going to get. They have been a band that just hasn’t really been able to do anything right for decades.
    It’s a bit painful watching Fortus and Frank in the place of Izzy and Steven, and I’m still not sure what Melissa does other than looking out of place, but if you ignore them, it is a treat to see Axl, Slash and Duff on stage together again. Axl is one of the last of a dying breed, and Slash is really on top of his game.
    Great seeing them back together where they belong.
     
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  21. Completely agree with all points. When I saw the show recently in Winston I had a side stage view. I couldn't see Melissa all night except when she was briefly on the big screen. I was OK with that.
     
  22. drbryant

    drbryant Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Melissa basically replaced Chris Pitman, so in addition to singing background vocals and being a second keyboardist with Dizzy Reed, she plays sub bass, synths and handles all of the electronic sounds during the show. She may look out of place, but prior to joining GnR had worked on projects with Brian Mantia, Buckethead and Paul Tobias.

     
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  23. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    Get Slash/Duff on all/part of the unreleased ChiDem follow up album and Walmart/Google would probably match the amount Best Buy paid in 2008.
     
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  24. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    What songs does she contribute most during the current GNR tour beyond backing vox?
     
  25. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Senior Member

    Location:
    Vancouver
    My favourite u2 members are Ivan McCormick and Dik Evans(pictured below).


    [​IMG]
     
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