Today I have my second Hana SL . The first was accidented many months ago, cantilever collapsed/bent while I unmount the cart from headshell. My dealer offered to swap it for new one, 20% discount that I accepted and waited. In my memory, the first Hana SL was very "musical" with very little surface noise with it's Shibata shape natural diamond. Sadly, with the second one, today when I first listen to not "clean" records, the surface noise was always there as with other cartridges (including ML type). Same setup ...using 2 g as recommendation from Hana. This SL seems brighter (more high frequency than expected) with two of my phono stages (Vida Prima, Rialto), even with SUT. Difficult "right" setup, maybe ? Could this be the cart needs many tens of hours of breaking in ? I'll hear in some days if this is the case. How do other SL users think ? In the past, I read so many happy users and so many unhappy users.
What are you loading it at? Try increasing the tracking force to 2.2g for the first couple dozen hours or so. It does sound a bit bright for the first few hours IME.
Thanks @Helom for your suggestion. The setup is same ( well I tried to set as for the first "before accident" SL ), For days to come, I'll increase VTF to 2.2 g. Nice to know that the SL sound (bright for first few hours) will change. So in few hours I may hear my music more pleasing . Placebo or not, after a couple of hours, I begin to appreciate the cart again. Reading the short manual and learning that the VTF note " Increase VTF value slightly if room temperature is below 20 degrees", first time I see this recommendation. Not the case ( about 24 °C in the room), but as 2.2g would not hurt, ...why not.
Last opinions ... Increasing the VTF to 2.2g did not help much reducing the brightness I've found. So I decreased to 2.0g as recommendation from Hana and changing the two positions of my Vida Prima "MC high" toggle listen to "MC low". Not much change. Shibata shape diamonds reputation of hard to set may be true. But now good news ... maybe "placebo"..."get used to..." or breaking in occured after a couple of hours, the balanced "full" sound is much better than in the beginning, still a bit on the "strident" side (depending on records), but much less so. Surface noise reduced also. Indeed very good cartridge after a couple of tens hours. Not boring or "too much", for now.
I talked to my dealer the other day. His suggestion was "breaking in" more hours with recommended VTF. If after forty/fifty hours, still not good, he will be happy to send it for another SL or if I want to replace with ML model, I can pay the price difference. When I said that I use the Hana SL on the same LP12 which had the Lyra Delos before, he/we understood the SL "problem", ... then I just admit that my next Delos (when "end-of-it's-life" arrives) will be another Delos, and with trade-in 20% less market price.
The SL is not at all strident or bright once broken in and setup correctly. It’s one of the most balanced cartridges I’ve heard anywhere with zero IGD. Try setting your VTA so that the cartridge is more tail down. Then double check your zenith, overhang and azimuth settings. Use Baerwald alignment if you’re not already.
Shibata stylus is hard to align and change the sonic signature a lot by SRA. I tried different SRA settings on Hana SL it can be bright if SRA is set too high and too dull if SRA is too low. Your problem most probably associated with high SRA. Try reducing it a little bit.
Thanks @Helom and @mtemur. Useful to know these "tricks" of VTA, SRA settings. Following my dealer's advice ( easiest way for me and thinking the setting is "right" from start, only 2.2g for a while and now VTF 2.0g). After more hours of playing various records thin/thick/very thick to have ideas of SRA/VTA influences (not obvious hearing much even with thickest mono record I have), the problem of "high frequency" unbalance (bright sounding) is much better and becoming more balanced. So this Hana SL do need a couple of tens hours to break-in. Happy again having another "good" cartridge to use for many months to come. My dealer said that the "moving parts" need to be "in place" (in french "se mettre en place"). I understand it now. As side note, I had some doubts in "cable breaking-in", I asked him how that possible. He explained that the cables's molecules also need to be "in place" with use.
In the case of cartridges, they have mechanical suspensions that break-in and alter the compliance. Running through the record grooves also polishes the diamond some. But definitely experiment with VTA/SRA if you continue to find it bright. LP thickness might not yield enough difference compared to adjusting the tonearm.
Good posting! My SL's are not bright at all ( that is why l like them) a brilliant VFM Cartridge- also make sure the loading is near its recommended point.
With my tinkering on "loading", I tried the two positions of my Vida Prima, > 15 Ohms and < 15 Ohms listening with care, no sensible difference with same record. I think that with my phono amp, I just use the "high" MC setting for Hana SL's 30 Ohms impedance, with suggested load of >400 Ohms. This one is my first Shibata diamond, I heard that setting is not easy, I can add that breaking in is mandatory. So far so good, this SL becoming "balanced" each day, I'm happy choosing this cart "again".
What arm you using, does it match the Hana. Their SL is the hardest cart to set up, due to the Shibata stylus. Actually as it's mounted on their common cantilever, I do not think anyone can set it up correctly!! Still if your arm does not have height adjustment then, you have got what you have got. And yes I have heard from others that their styli are a bit fragile. Perhaps you may be better with the EL which is Elliptical & I have heard it in my arm and it can sound very, very good. Cheers PS, you will need a USB microscope to set it correctly, learn about correct stylus SRA setting up.
As the Hana SL was mounted on my best "musical" turntable LP12, and becoming far better than first hours, without doing tinkering of SRA/VTA/VTF, setting at 2.0g and "parallel tonearm", my dealer was right needing more hours to break in. On my Vida Prima, I hear the difference setting ("high MC" or "Low MC" ), very subtle. The cart needed more hours to sound "right". Just to follow what I wanted to do with the Hana SL, It is on the "cheap" Pro-Ject RPM3 * and for about ten hours of good sounding with various types of records/musics. My conclusion is this Hana SL is good for service I hope for many hundreds hours of pleasure. Shibata cut is "musical/magical" ( SL is my first Shibata ) , and "silence track", now I know ... A bit hard to set it up and patience breaking in, but not so difficult, very acceptable/manageable. For the price, it was a good buy, even if I had "done" a collapsed cantilever which served me lesson for future mount/unmount cartridge. ... * plus SUT, Rialto, ISx REF, P3 = more than I hoped for good/nice sounding
For many days that I appreciate the very nice sounding with different types of records (about 45 LP of different genres, Classical, Jazz, Pop, Crooners, etc.) and the sounding of the system is still sweet, not disturbing surface noise. I must admit that the system IS balanced with the last component (Hana SL). Audio IS full of surprises. ... as side notes : 1- the ISx Reference with more hours of listening IS indeed huge upgrade from plain ISx. The "upgrade" was not obvious, with more than 100 hours playing, now it is with more dynamic, quick attacks, silence, etc. 2 - as Rothwell recommend, the Rialto is much better sounding in MM setting (plus SUT for MC use), happy having done this very subtle but in difficult "passages", the music is more lively. 3 - P3 XD pair is so good (tilting forward about 20°) that I will take time to appreciate the "music" for months to come "as is"
The Cable Co is offering this... •$1,200 trade-up of Hana ML to Umami Red (100% trade-up allowance) •$750 trade-up of Hana SL to Umami Red (100% trade-up allowance) •$325 trade-up of Hana EL to M Series cartridges (68% trade-up allowance) •$250 trade-up of Hana EL to S Series cartridges (53% trade-up allowance)
Thanks Tom for these headups. Strange that it is more expensive going from ML to Umami Red than from SL. Hana ML is 1,149€, while SL is 689€ (Umami Red 3,690€ at same shop here in France) Not that interest me, just curious. What does it mean "trade-up allowance in xx%" ? Hana SL is "now" good enough for me for years to come. I'd likely trade it for the same SL again in few years.
Mind boggling. So if I buy a brand new SL today, and I trade it in tomorrow for an Umami Red, I have an Umami Red for 750+750=1500$ Or does trade up mean: discount when trading in?
nothing wrong with that. maybe easier setting with the elliptical diamond than sophisticated shape of Shibata.
so good cartridge. Now I'm listening for a couple of times the DG record 2530 309, William Russo Op. 50(1958) and Leonard Bernstein West Side Story Dances, Orchestre Symphonique de San Francisco, Seiji Ozawa, verygood recording/pressing, I'm very impressed by Siegel-Schwall Band... Leonard Bernstein / William Russo – Siegel-Schwall Band, San Francisco Symphony Orchestra · Seiji Ozawa - Symphonic Dances From West Side Story / Three Pieces For Blues Band And Orchestra Even with the shoebox size P3, what a pleasure, mixing of dynamic, subtlety instruments I never heard of. Bravo Hana SL and the rest .
Continuing my SL exploration, I changed turntable from musical Linn LP12 to ...don't laugh please, Pro-Ject RPM3, just to hear the differences. My surprise was very big surprise, not that bad sounding, SL + RPM3 so for many weeks now I spin many records without "tinkering the setup", having heard some weird "distortions" (I know these came from the loose setup). Now that I can hear in headphones (thanks DUO), I tried to do setup by ears something that I never succeed. The subtle details ( comprise distortions ) allowed by headphones permitted this with small steps of moving the Hana SL in the fix headshell. My surprise is even bigger when I finished after many tries/errors that the sounding are so sweet on my pair of Harbeth P3 ( plus DUO, A21). Just to relate that exploring "good" sounding is endless. My conclusion is if we want to try out, we can succeed (or fail sometimes), ...just take time and pleasure to do it. Happy listening to all .
Strange thing happened, not with Hana SL but with my other components. I understand better different soundings "signature" war MM/MC carts of about same category. My second TT with MM cart ( AT VM540ML ) linked to the MM port of my preamp Cambridge DUO this lead to easy "swap" sounding between MM/MC at a push of button (needing to swap records from TT1 to TT2 though). I mounted on MM TT1 first cheap Ortofon 2M Silver, to hear that this cart is "very good" indeed. Further ... Wanting to compare sounding of new to me VM540ML (easy setting up) with the MC Hana SL (more time/knowledge to set it up ) Just to hear by myself (in my environment and same components for many days) that with each record, no winner in each case. ... So now I know that MM or MC carts can give pleasing sound and Hana SL is a very nice cart as well as AT-VM540ML.
Why bother, as I hear so good with the Hana SL and AT VM540ML with the DUO and the rest. I don't have any complaint. I may keep this for myself. I know now that DUO is not "so bad" as it's low price would indicate. What I wanted to describe is my "small" P3 chain as is ( now ) is "musical" enough to my ears MC or MM. I have of course higher price/performance/different...that I can listen to within seconds (if I wanted to ...) in another room, Lyra Delos/Vida Prima/LP12/ISx Ref/or Orchestra for tube sounding/C7-XD for example. Anyway, this thread is for Hana SL cartridge which for me can be quite good with entry level phono stage
