Well, if it's control over the woofers that is important, I'm starting to think the Unison amps may not be the best option. Their damping factor is relatively low for a SS design. I know @Art K has had great success with a Belles Aria, which has a high DF. So I'd probably look there instead. I realize DF is not typically a measurement that is crucial in most scenarios, but Harbeth seems like it might be the exception.
When I upgraded the SS amp on my P3ESR rock music became much more enjoyable. Even with a subwoofer the system lacked the mid-bass punch that’s important for rock, since much of this range was above the subwoofer. With a more powerful and better quality amp this mid-bass hole is filled and the system now sounds great for rock music (within the usual limits of the P3ESR - small room, etc.)
I have PS3ERs with an Ear 834 phono and a Pioneer Home Receiver with a subwoofer. As long as the sub kicks in I find rock sounds great. I also have a pretty small room which probably helps. What amp do you have? I have always wondered about upgrading to a tube amp but the receiver is so versatile if you listen to multi-channel recordings.
Too narrow IMHO . It’s not a Slayer speaker. But they play great with pop,rock, soul, R&B, Blues etc. If not then your amp is not up to requirement for them. With my LM508 2x48 SET the range of music sounding great was much less than with my solid state. I think it's a matter of tube output transformer altering the frequency response causing issues. There might be speakers that work great with tubes but my experience is that tubes + harbeth is not allowing them to play as intended. Not saying tubes are bad but they will color the Harbeth and not make them sound as good as they potentially can. For some that coloration might be what they want but since the Harbeths are designed to be crazy neutral it is rather sad changing that by adding an amp that adds coloration.
I demoed the 30.1s with a Croft 45w hybrid amp and the response bass (depth, scale, and dynamic impact) did make wonder if they needed a bit more up 'em... And/or a smaller room.
not yet, I'll see how the 5's do with my Rogue amp but am leaving the door open for solid a state power amp at some point. The Cronus Magnum is very punchy and dynamic along with a spacious transparency I have not heard in any all solid state amplifier. I am not willing to lose that for tighter bass and more headroom.
I was using a NAD 326bee (50 w/ch) and then upgraded to a NAD 375bee (150 w/ch). I don’t play the music any louder now, but the 375 sounds better across the range and much stronger and tighter in the mid-bass region that’s critical for rock music. Below 80 Hz is supplemented with a powered SVS sub, but it’s that region above 80Hz where the beefier amp really helps to drive the P3’s to their best.
My receiver is 140 w/ch and I have a powered sub as well. So I suspect you are right about the extra power making the difference. The only flaw I really find with my system is the sub occasionally cutting out at lower volumes. I have adjusted crossover but sometimes I just have to turn up the volume to get the sub to kick in. With the sub the PS3ERs become incredibly transparent and fill the room.
Ever listen to Pass Labs amps? IMO, the Harbeths would be a perfect match with a XA30.8. You'll get the tight bass control, headroom & transparency. Don't discount the 30wpc spec. I used to run Harbeths with a ML pre-amp\amp of comparable power and the sound was impeccable. The Pass is light years better.
I personally just think the Brits get the mid-range right, along with tone and rythum and timing...and this goes all the way down to the budget speakers of various budget brands. When you step up to a Harbeth, Spendor, Graham,Quad, Sterling, Pro Ac, ATC, PMC, Big Tannoy, Wilson Benisch, Kudos, some Kefs and many others it just gets much much better and more human sounding from there. To me it doesn't get much better than that in music, and it's not because I'm being close minded, this has been my experience and I have a lot of it so this isn't just words I'm throwing around..
Nope not exactly what I meant...very few others for a good price can....find me a $300 American, Canadian ect speaker that can create a convincing mid-range like a pair of $300 Wharfedale Diamonds can I'll wait...my point is the consistency to get those things right from mutilple brands from the bottom of the price scale to the top....and as far as top goes the most expensive Harbeth costs $15k Which is pennies In the AVShowroom world....
I like Audio Note but they don't need any endoresments from me... I think Richard loves them enough for everyone on all the audio forums...lol
bradleyc like you is patiently waiting on his Harbeths. But he is waiting on 40.2's. He will be pairing it with one of his Marantz Reference amps. Perhaps the PM 10 which I believe you don't care for those amps...but that Marantz PM 11s3 has different amps and has all the transparency and dynamic one could possible need. A fine high end amp!
Traditionally, most British speakers have a “house sound” which is known for its “glorious midrange”. All the brands above in Tawaun A Williams post fall under this general category. And generally speaking, the British sound is warmer and is more suitable for smaller rooms, like the ones in most of British and European homes. When I think of British sound I think of mid-range. That does not necessarily mean that there are no other speakers that get the mid-range right, there are, but this is where the emphasis is, for the British school.
I have a pair of Wharfdale Dentons 80th and a pair of Canton's GL 403 among a few other sets of speakers in my closet. Both speakers do things great but different. The 80's are warmer and not as detailed or as transparent and clear. The 403's arent as warm and much more dynamic. Both speakers are excellent budget speakers. Is one better than the other? I wouldn't say so. Pair them with the right amps and cables and they are excellent. My point? I get that you love what you love just as we all do. But I've heard the JBL 4367's...the L100's, the s3900' The Harbeths, the Spendors, the Legacy Audio, the Revels and a host of others. Some great speakers on the market. But we do have our likes and favorites. But when you say "find me a $300 American, Canadian ect speaker that can create a convincing mid-range like a pair of $300 Wharfedale Diamonds can I'll wait..." Man theres a world of speakers you and I haven't even heard yet...and besides...... the hearing is in the ear of the listener...its a subjective thing. This hobby is very subjective.....how do I know? Look around the boards and see what we all like....its all different....I see cats with some great rigs! Here in STL I have a number of audio friends who have very respectable rigs and we listen to each others system. They all sound great, and I wouldn't dare pit one against the other. Yet they are all different and just know they're all enjoyable once you really listen to the music and not the gear. The need to figure out which speaker is putting out the best mid range or which tweeter note hangs in the air becomes very silly when thers synergy in the rig and it communicates to you what the music is saying.
One thing I've really learned from going to the audio show. You have to be able to see the potential in the gear you are trying to evaluate because most of the rooms and the rigs are not at the best but most times seem to be just thrown together. Once you get the gear in a home setting with synergy, you see what the component can really do.
I LOVE my 30.1s powered by a Boulder integrated. I do agree they could use a bit more bass, so I added a REL subwoofer. Highly recommended!
That comment about the mid-range is a silly one...to imply others cant do it right is just down right untrue.
Thats what im talking about...if the rig is lacking, find a way to make it right! Thats what audio hobbyist do! Lot of tweaks and stuff on the market to help get it right!
I've heard and owned a lot of speakers countless...it's probably been about 20 speakers that's been in my current room over the last year and half.....and that's just over that time period. When I made my comment I didn't site any speaker in particular I stated that the " British" that didn't mean that no other speaker of another country cant....and you're point about the Denton's a speaker that originally costed 1k isnt the same as what I said as a $300 Diamond. I can like a speaker but not wanna own it I've reviewed dozens of speakers over the forums over the years....so I don't need you to give me your feable attempt of a speaker education. You have your beliefs with speakers and I have mine....but just because you have yours doesn't devalue what's relevant to me....now thread carry on with Harbeth and the great British mid-range and tone....
Now that was funny I must admit - besides, the AN's are based on Snell - an American speaker maker - and are made in Austria using Danish and Japanese drivers - so they don't technically count as British and don't have the closed mouth BBC dip. I have nearly purchased BBC speakers about 4 times over the years but my sense is that over about a year I would probably sell them. I think @5-String has it correct in that all the brands mentioned by Tawaun are difficult not to at least like. Midrange is the critical area and a warmer balanced BBC dip sort of speaker will be all day listenable. You won't get, usually, that treble emphasis geared to home theater shoppers. What I refer to as the boom and sizzle experience emphasizing car explosions. Nevertheless @Slippers-on makes a point that that warm sound can come at the expense of detail, transparency, and clarity. Depending on the room, the gear and the taste in music - will depend which speaker is best suited. I sometimes wish I had a great mansion with 20 rooms so that I could build to different strengths. I am now working on building 2-3 additional systems (not AN) to try and focus on different strengths. I have found a few items that show promise for my non AN systems turntables, speakers, and amplifiers - including Solid State amplifiers. @avanti1960 What SS amps budget are you in if you go the SS way? ArtK likes Belles - so that might be worth a look and one of the reviewers on our staff raves about Wells Audio. I quite like Accuphase and Puraudio out of New Zealand. Expensive but 100 watt class A amps would be pureaudio I have seen some pretty respectable second hand prices on Accuphase Class A amplifiers - so a good condition second hand one might be had for the price of a new Parasound or Bryston kind of amp. I myself am considering a second hand Accuphase all class A amplifier - depending how much I can get one. Pureaudio is also on my list - I read that their designer used to design for Plinius and those were quite good as well. In Hong Kong I see a lot of photos of folks with 40.1 and 40.2 running big SET amps (like LM) - I don't see that Harbeth is especially tough to drive. Low sensitivity limits extreme volume but in terms of efficiency most of the Harbeths looked, from what I remember, to pretty good in terms of phase angle to impedance - almost like the LS-3/5a. A 20 watt tube amp (which usually sound like 60 solid state watts) in a modest room could very well work. A Line Magnetic 845 tube. How about a Soro